Trayvon Martin Shooting

[Prebe]

True^^

[Rawedge Rim]

Because he has no motivation to lie about it when the only witness is

As the article states, eyewitness testimony and the 911 calls corroborate Zimmerman's story.

It also disagrees with other witnesses versions of events. So let's not cherry-pick what we consider to be evidence.

Once again, there's this thing where we are admonished to withold judgement whenever we dislike the facts, and then we're supposed to unconditionally accept other facts when they are more to our liking.

Zimmerman would have us believe that one minute Martin is walking away, and he is following him, and then literally the next minute he turns around, and then Martin comes out of the blue and attacks him. Much more believable theories for what happened have been poo-pooed here.

Read some more about this in today's news; it's becoming more apparent as other witness's are being interviewed, and those accounts released, that Zimmerman's story is essentially what happened, though I still think he didn't have any business following the kid in the first place.

[Cail]

If I make a single concession to racial peace, it is the observation that he should have been arrested at the scene. I base this on the near certainty that, roles reversed, Martin is cuffed and stuffed.

Zimmerman was taken into custody, though not arrested. He was questioned at least twice, and the local prosecutor declined to press charges.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

The Daily Caller (a news source whose bias is unknown to me since I have never heard of them before) has managed to get hold of the late Mr. Martin's Twitter account and his posts for the last two months leading up to his death.

The family claims that people are tyring to kill his image by bringing up things like his suspension from school. Sadly, no one can damage the late Mr. Martin's reputation and image more than his own words do. Feel free to follow the link and browse through the tweets for yourself.

I would advise Mr. Zimmermann to submit to being arrested, arraigned, then bond out of jail. This would disrupt his life for a couple of days, at most--he doesn't have anything else going on right now so he has nothing to lose--and could help diffuse some of the tension, given that the outcry seems to stem from the fact that he was never arrested.

Having said that, I have to wonder that if I were in the same situation would I follow my own advice? hrm....

[Prebe]

Sadly, no one can damage the late Mr. Martin's reputation and image more than his own words do.

I don't have a clue what the hell he's saying. I flunked ebonics 101. Could be an advanced new theory on cold fusion for all I know. But a 152 pages of tweets in two months??? Wow! No wonder he's incoherent.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

I have read enough lolcat captions--even the lolcat Bible--and Facebook posts that I can translate easily enough.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

He seems like a misogynistic thug, so far as I can decipher those tweets.

[sgt.null]

If I make a single concession to racial peace, it is the observation that he should have been arrested at the scene. I base this on the near certainty that, roles reversed, Martin is cuffed and stuffed.

agreed. my biggest problem is what seems to be shoddy policework. i've seen lesser offenses than shooting a juvenile brought to a grand jury.

[wayfriend]

He seems like a misogynistic thug, so far as I can decipher those tweets.

Yeah. But when a political organization is the one behind digging them up and sharing them, it's clear that the purpose is only to discourage the sentiment towards Trayvon, and undermine the political movement that is resulting, and could be construed as trying to prove that Trayvon deserved what he got. It's plain despicable any way you look at it. Unless it shows a history of trying to act suspicious in order to lure neighborhood watchmen into a beating, it's not relevant.

I'm pretty disgusted by the attempts to undermine the issues being raised by people over this incident. It's like if we can prove that this incident wasn't a racial issue, it would prove that there are no racial issues. What I actually see is efforts to undermine anyone raising racial issues into the public spotlight, and if we can make people suspect that all racial issues are "exagerated", so much the better.

(AP) JACKSON, Miss. - Three white men involved in the beating and fatal rundown of a black man in Mississippi pleaded guilty Thursday to federal hate crimes and admitted to a months-long pattern of brutal harassment against blacks a day after one of them pleaded guilty in state court to a murder charge. [...] The three are from the town of Brandon, a Jackson suburb, and were accused of going to the majority-black capital city on numerous occasions to harass or assault black people. [link]

Racism is still a systemic issue.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Yeah. But when a political organization is the one behind digging them up and sharing them, it's clear that the purpose is only to discourage the sentiment towards Trayvon, and undermine the political movement that is resulting, and could be construed as trying to prove that Trayvon deserved what he got. It's plain despicable any way you look at it. Unless it shows a history of trying to act suspicious in order to lure neighborhood watchmen into a beating, it's not relevant.

I'm pretty disgusted by the attempts to undermine the issues being raised by people over this incident. It's like if we can prove that this incident wasn't a racial issue, it would prove that there are no racial issues. What I actually see is efforts to undermine anyone raising racial issues into the public spotlight, and if we can make people suspect that all racial issues are "exagerated", so much the better.

No one is trying to discourage sentiment towards the late Mr. Martin--he was still shot and killed at the age of 17, which is a shame no matter how you look at it.

On the other hand, isn't it equally disingenuous of the family to show an outdated picture of Mr. Martin and to downplay any mention of his Twitter account with the profile name "no_limit_nigga"? Have you read those tweets of his? Please do so and then form your own conclusions as to his personality and outlook on life. Also, don't forget that his mother's lawyer filed copyrights for phrases containing her son's name--she will receive a portion of all the profit from the hoodies being sold that bear her son's name or picture.

No one doubts there are clearly still racial issues at work in this case. Mr. Zimmermann was following Mr. Martin only because he was a young black male wearing a hoodie and, in his mind, that made him "suspicious". Of course, many media outlets keep pointing out that Mr. Zimmermann is a white Hispanic, which serves to keep the racial tension higher than it might normally be.

This case, unlike the other two dozen or more murders that have happened around the nation in the last month, is being blown out of proportion because it is easy to fan racial tensions here, unlike a white-on-white or black-on-black shooting.

Of course, it doesn't help when people like Spike Lee are interjecting themselves into the case by tweeting the wrong address for Mr. Zimmermann, thereby putting an elderly couple at risk of being wrongfully attacked.

[Zarathustra]

What I actually see is efforts to undermine anyone raising racial issues into the public spotlight, and if we can make people suspect that all racial issues are "exagerated", so much the better.

That's an exaggeration. No one said or implied "all" racial issues are exaggerated. We've specifically said that this particular shooting is being exploited and exaggerated into a general trend (a "war" in Jackson's words) ... a general trend which is nonexistent if you look at the data.

We don't even know if this incident was racially motivated! How is it possible for us to claim racial issues are exaggerated when the example we're talking about isn't even proven to be a racial issue?!?

With that said, far from dismissing racial issues, I've repeatedly pointed out one clear racial issue: your side is using the race of Zimmerman to conclude that his actions were suspicious. You're profiling him, judging him without any evidence except the color of his skin. So yes, racial issues exist. This example proves it. But not in the direction that Jackson, Sharpton, and you assume. It exhibits your own racial prejudices, that you assume (without evidence) that if a Caucasian shoots a black man, it must have been racially motivated.

SANFORD, Fla – An elderly Florida couple have been forced to move into a hotel after their home address was wrongly tweeted as belonging to the man who shot teen Trayvon Martin.

The tweets were traced back to a man in California and the address was also reportedly retweeted by director Spike Lee to his almost 250,000 followers.

The couple, aged 70 and 72, have been harassed with hate mail, been hassled by media and had scared neighbors questioning them since the tweet, their son Chip Humble told the Orlando Sentinel.

Fearful for their safety, and hoping to escape the spotlight, the couple have temporarily moved to a hotel.

The confusion seems to stem from the fact the woman's son is named William George Zimmerman and he lived briefly at the address in 1995.

When William Zimmerman pleaded with the man who tweeted the address, the man responded, "Black power all day. No justice, no peace" along with an obscenity.

Neighborhood Watch volunteer George Zimmerman shot and killed Martin in a Sanford gated community on Feb. 26, with emotions and anger running at fever pitch while he remains free.

William Zimmerman said he used his mother and stepfather's address to register a car, get a drivers license and vote when he lived there after college.

"This is really scary, and I'm concerned for my family," William Zimmerman said. "It's scary because there are people who aren't mentally right and will take this information and run with it.

"To endanger people who are innocent because people are angry is not the answer. That's not how we're going to heal. It's not [going] to help the Martin family for someone else to be hurt."

link

You still don't think it's possible that this is getting out of hand? People are so irrationally angry that they don't even care if they're going after the right Zimmerman anymore. All you have to have is the same last name, and you can be an elderly couple targeted by Spike Lee and his mindless drones. Black power! No peace. Obscenity.

[Zarathustra]

From CNN:

Zimmerman called police to report a suspicious person. He described Martin as black and said he was acting strangely and could have been on drugs.

Zimmerman said he got out of his SUV and followed Martin on foot.

"Something's wrong with him," he told a 911 dispatcher, according to the contents of a call released by authorities. "Yep. He's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands."

This tells us two things:

1. Zimmerman thought Martin was suspicious based on his behavior. He told the police twice that something was wrong with how he was acting. Given that Martin was suspended from school on possession of a baggie containing traces of drugs, it's not so far-fetched that Martin was actually intoxicated, and Zimmerman was right to note that his behavior indicated this. While it's still possible that Zimmerman could have been racially motivated, there is at least recorded evidence that his suspicion extended beyond the color of Martin's skin, to the content of his character (in as much as behavior is an indication of character).

2. Martin approached Zimmerman. Granted, this is Zim's account, but it's not an after-the-fact account. It's before the shooting. So unless Zim's actions were entirely premeditated, and he concocted both his intention to kill and his exonerating story right there in the moment while he was on the phone with 911, it's at least plausible that this was the truth. This isn't a man trying to justify his actions afterwards, but his description while it's happening.

Given the fact that Martin told his girlfriend that he wasn't going to run, and that Martin did not call the police himself, it's looking less and less likely that Martin felt he was in danger, but instead merely pissed off that Zimmerman was checking him out. It looks like Martin initiated the encounter which led to his death, by approaching Zimmerman.

[Cail]

Sanford cops sought warrant to arrest George Zimmerman in Trayvon Martin shooting

Despite public claims that there wasn't enough probable cause to make a criminal case in the Trayvon Martin killing, early in the investigation the Sanford Police Department requested an arrest warrant from the Seminole County State Attorney's Office, the special prosecutor in the case told the Miami Herald on Tuesday.

A Sanford police incident report shows the case was categorized as "homicide/negligent manslaughter."

The State Attorney's Office held off pending further review, the Herald reported.

The Miami Gardens high school junior was killed Feb. 26 by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer. The 28-year-old insurance underwriter and college student was never charged, triggering a nationwide crusade on the dead teenager's behalf.

Asked to confirm that the police recommended a manslaughter charge, special prosecutor Angela Corey said:

"I don't know about that, but as far as the process I can tell you that the police went to the state attorney with a capias request, meaning: 'We're through with our investigation and here it is for you.' The state attorney impaneled a grand jury, but before anything else could be done, the governor stepped in and asked us to pick it up in midstream."

A capias is a request for charges to be filed.

The Seminole County State Attorney's Office declined to comment on whether its prosecutors ever recommended against filing charges.

The Herald quoted an unnamed source in the Seminole State Attorney's Office as saying the office gets capias warrants all the time, but that doesn't mean it files charges right away.

The Seminole County State Attorney's Office was consulted the night of Martin's killing, but no prosecutor ever visited the scene. As the controversy intensified, Gov. Rick Scott replaced Seminole State Attorney Norm Wolfinger with Corey, the state attorney for Duval, Nassau and Clay counties, based in Jacksonville.

The development is in stark contrast to the statements repeatedly made by Bill Lee, the Sanford police chief who has since stepped aside and was lambasted for his handling of the case. Lee publicly insisted that there was no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman, leading many critics to say he came across more like a defense attorney for Zimmerman.

"Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self-defense which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony," Lee wrote in a memo posted on the city's website. "By Florida Statute, law enforcement was PROHIBITED from making an arrest based of the facts and circumstances they had at the time."

He cited the statute number for Florida's "stand your ground" law, which provides immunity to people who kill someone in self-defense.

Lee was criticized for his explanations, because many people thought he was bending over backward to protect the shooter based on the results of a shoddy investigation.

A spokeswoman for the city said the Police Department would make no further comments on the ongoing investigation.

The FBI and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement took over the case. An FDLE investigator and the new prosecutor were spotted in Zimmerman's neighborhood Tuesday interviewing witnesses.

Many of the facts of what happened at the Retreat at Twin Lakes that night remain murky.

What's clear is that Martin was staying at his father's girlfriend's house in a gated community in Sanford while serving out a 10-day suspension for getting caught with an empty bag of marijuana at Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School.

He went for a walk shortly before the start of the NBA All-Star game to buy Skittles and iced tea. Zimmerman, who had a history of reporting "suspicious characters," spotted Martin when he was on his way back from a 7-Eleven and called police saying he saw someone who looked high, walked too slowly in the rain and appeared to be looking at people's houses.

The neighborhood watch volunteer, who was licensed to carry a 9mm semiautomatic handgun in a holster, was recorded on the police line muttering profanities and a possible racial slur. He tailed Martin until the teen took off running.

Martin's family's attorneys say the dead teen's cellphone records show he was on the phone with his girlfriend, who told lawyers that Martin was alarmed that someone was following him. She heard him ask Zimmerman why he was pursuing him, then heard a scuffle before the line went dead.

Zimmerman told police that Martin approached him from behind and attacked him. The Orlando Sentinel, citing an unnamed police source, reported that Zimmerman said Martin decked him with one punch and slammed his head on the concrete.

The two tussled on the ground, and Zimmerman took the gun from his waist and shot Martin once in the chest, according to Zimmerman's account.

Lee told the Herald two weeks ago that Zimmerman was able to articulate that he was in "reasonable fear" of great bodily harm or death.

Witness statements and a doctor's report corroborated his injuries, Lee said. A police report said he had a bloody nose and a grass-stained shirt.

[Zarathustra]

Given our TV/movie culture that includes crime dramas, perhaps people imagine that it's an easy thing to concoct a story on the spot that perfectly fits a "crime" scene, eye-witness account, 911 calls prior to the event, and the physical evidence. But this is entirely unrealistic. The altercation didn't take long at all. The police were on the scene within minutes. To think that Zimmerman, in the heat of such a highly-charged emotional event as shooting another human being, could concoct a story that had not a single inconsistency with any of these numerous sources of evidence, is just implausible. Unless he's a criminal mastermind with nerves of steel, I don't consider it likely. His own injuries, the eye-witness account, and his recorded words to 911 prior to the event back up his story without a single inconsistency. Being able to lie that effectively and seamlessly in the heat of the moment, in such a way that takes into account everything you've just told the police before the event, and any possible eye-witnesses who (for all you know) could easily contradict your story if you're lying, and have it match every detail of the available forensic evidence, it's just implausible.

But people will go with their gut in these situations. And their gut tells them that a white man can't shoot a black man without it being racism, facts be damned.

[wayfriend]

On the other hand, isn't it equally disingenuous of the family to show an outdated picture of Mr. Martin and to downplay any mention of his Twitter account with the profile name "no_limit_nigga"? Have you read those tweets of his? Please do so and then form your own conclusions as to his personality and outlook on life.

What the hell does his outlook on life matter here? If there is a reason for asking people to read this and form a conclusion about his outlook on life that isn't either bent on making the crime against him seem less severe, or making people less sympathetic to his tragedy, please let me know what it is. Because frankly I don't see any other ones.

Zimmerman thought Martin was suspicious based on his behavior.

Wrong. It does not. This could merely be something Zimmernan said to get the police interested.

Again, your bias toward utter trust of anything that exonerates Zimmerman, even to the point of asking people to overlook obvious alternatives, stands out here like a sore thumb.

2. Martin approached Zimmerman.

Ditto.

[Cail]

On the other hand, isn't it equally disingenuous of the family to show an outdated picture of Mr. Martin and to downplay any mention of his Twitter account with the profile name "no_limit_nigga"? Have you read those tweets of his? Please do so and then form your own conclusions as to his personality and outlook on life.

What the hell does his outlook on life matter here? If there is a reason for asking people to read this and form a conclusion about his outlook on life that isn't either bent on making the crime against him seem less severe, or making people less sympathetic to his tragedy, please let me know what it is. Because frankly I don't see any other ones.

It matters quite a bit, as it lends credence to the assertion that Martin attacked Zimmerman.

But you seem to be making the assumption that a crime was committed against Martin. If Martin attacked Zimmerman, then the crime was committed against Zimmerman.

[wayfriend]

It matters quite a bit, as it lends credence to the assertion that Martin attacked Zimmerman.

How so?

[Cail]

It matters quite a bit, as it lends credence to the assertion that Martin attacked Zimmerman.

How so?

It, along with his suspensions from school, suggest a pattern of behavior. While it's certainly not absolute, concrete evidence, it paints a picture of an angry, misogynistic young man with a disdain for following rules.

While nothing in Martin's past gives anyone the excuse to shoot him, it suggests that possibly what Zimmerman saw was accurate....That Martin was, in fact, acting suspicious.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

It matters to a degree because the late Mr. Martin isn't an innocent angel who never did anything wrong to anyone as the family would claim.

The evidence is beginning to point to the scenario in which Mr. Zimmermann first began following Mr. Martin and confronted him but then, in the process of dropping it as the 911 dispatcher suggests, Mr. Martin approached Mr. Zimmermann and punched him. This makes only Mr. Martin the one who committed a crime in this instance. Mr. Zimmermann's motivation for intiating the entire event, however personally distasteful, are ultimately irrelevant.

This all happened a month ago. Why has it been exploded into a national event only during the past two weeks?

As I have noted, since the outrage seems to be that Mr. Zimmermann hasn't been arrested then arrest him, arraign him, then let a grand jury hear sworn testimony.

[Cail]

A very lengthy, but very thorough explanation of Florida's self-defense laws.