CHINA: NEXT WORLD SUPERPOWER?
I don't trust American anymore than a murderer. That war on Iraq was completely unnecessary, and they, (And the English as well come to mention it) killed thousands upon thousand innocent people for nothing. War sickens me Brinn, that is why I have such an anti-American attitude. I also have as much respect for the American government as I do for the English one. Which is non-existant. So I'm not being baised about who's to blame, because we got invovled with it as much as you did.
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Guest
Fair enough Darth. You're entitled to your opinion although I think the use of the term "murderer" is a bit of hyperbole as a murderer typically kills with premeditated malice. How do you reconcile the fact that the "Coalition of the Willing" prosecuted the war with extreme care to avoid civilian casualties, and this, only after thirteen years of diplomatic efforts designed to achieve the removal of the true murderer (Saddam) without use of force?Darth wrote:I don't trust American anymore than a murderer. That war on Iraq was completely unnecessary, and they, (And the English as well come to mention it) killed thousands upon thousand innocent people for nothing. War sickens me Brinn, that is why I have such an anti-American attitude. I also have as much respect for the American government as I do for the English one. Which is non-existant. So I'm not being baised about who's to blame, because we got invovled with it as much as you did.
As I said, you may never change your anti-American stance but hopefully, as someone who appears to disdain violence and values human rights, you will realize your desire to see the Peoples Republic of China supplant the US as world hegemon, is plain illogical and silly.
That was me.
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. John Stuart Mill
I don't desire China to be number one power In the world, i desire that the US not to be.Anonymous wrote:As I said, you may never change your anti-American stance but hopefully, as someone who appears to disdain violence and values human rights, you will realize your desire to see the Peoples Republic of China supplant the US as world hegemon, is plain illogical and silly.
But you are correct, I wouldn'y like any country being "the Number one power" In the world.
Am I that obvious? 
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. John Stuart Mill
They still killed plenty of innocent people Brinn! A little kid got his arms blown off! How can you support that?! The war didn't have to happen!Brinn wrote: Fair enough Darth. You're entitled to your opinion although I think the use of the term "murderer" is a bit of hyperbole as a murderer typically kills with premeditated malice. How do you reconcile the fact that the "Coalition of the Willing" prosecuted the war with extreme care to avoid civilian casualties, and this, only after thirteen years of diplomatic efforts designed to achieve the removal of the true murderer (Saddam) without use of force?
When did I ever give the impression that I support the killing of civilians? I did support the removal of Saddam Hussein and unfortunately civilian deaths, although minimized to every possible extent, were unavoidable given that Saddam and his Fedayeen chose to operate in heavily populated civilian areas.
Try looking at this angle:
One one side of the ledger we have a few of Saddam's measures:
1978-80: Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, whose ancestors were of Iranian origin, packed in trucks and thrown out on border with Iran. Property confiscated. Hundreds died in very cold weather. Thousands of their teenage sons kept in Iraqi jails and after more than 15 years all killed.
1983: Government campaign against members of Kurdish Barzani tribe for helping Iran launch offensive in northern Iraq. Estimated 8,000 killed, many buried in mass graves far from home in Iraq's southern desert.
1986-88: Scorched-earth offensive known as "Al-Anfal" campaign that included chemical attacks on Kurds in northern Iraq for advocating autonomy. Estimated 180,000 Kurds killed, many buried in mass graves in south. Possible genocide charges in Iraqi tribunal. Yes Darth, that's 180,000 murdered.
1991: Crackdowns on Shiite Muslim and Kurdish uprisings at end of the Gulf War. Estimated 60,000 killed. Many buried in mass graves.
—1992: Draining of marshes in southern Iraq, driving population known as Marsh Arabs from homes and wiping out way of life. Tens of thousands killed. No mass graves. Possible genocide charges.
—1979-2003: Various political prisoners of populations distrusted by Saddam disappeared, including Turkomans, religious Muslims and communists. Tens of thousands believed killed. Many buried in mass graves, some near prisons.
So what's that?... up around a quarter of a million Iraqi's murdered? On the other side of the ledger we have less than 5,000 Iraqi civilian casulaties suffered in the ousting of Saddam. Certainly the maiming of a young innocent boy is awful but it was an unintentional accident. Compare that to the carefully plannned brutality of Saddam and you can start to appreciate who was the real murderer.
Try looking at this angle:
One one side of the ledger we have a few of Saddam's measures:
1978-80: Hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, whose ancestors were of Iranian origin, packed in trucks and thrown out on border with Iran. Property confiscated. Hundreds died in very cold weather. Thousands of their teenage sons kept in Iraqi jails and after more than 15 years all killed.
1983: Government campaign against members of Kurdish Barzani tribe for helping Iran launch offensive in northern Iraq. Estimated 8,000 killed, many buried in mass graves far from home in Iraq's southern desert.
1986-88: Scorched-earth offensive known as "Al-Anfal" campaign that included chemical attacks on Kurds in northern Iraq for advocating autonomy. Estimated 180,000 Kurds killed, many buried in mass graves in south. Possible genocide charges in Iraqi tribunal. Yes Darth, that's 180,000 murdered.
1991: Crackdowns on Shiite Muslim and Kurdish uprisings at end of the Gulf War. Estimated 60,000 killed. Many buried in mass graves.
—1992: Draining of marshes in southern Iraq, driving population known as Marsh Arabs from homes and wiping out way of life. Tens of thousands killed. No mass graves. Possible genocide charges.
—1979-2003: Various political prisoners of populations distrusted by Saddam disappeared, including Turkomans, religious Muslims and communists. Tens of thousands believed killed. Many buried in mass graves, some near prisons.
So what's that?... up around a quarter of a million Iraqi's murdered? On the other side of the ledger we have less than 5,000 Iraqi civilian casulaties suffered in the ousting of Saddam. Certainly the maiming of a young innocent boy is awful but it was an unintentional accident. Compare that to the carefully plannned brutality of Saddam and you can start to appreciate who was the real murderer.
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. John Stuart Mill
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Revelstone_dweller
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Has anyone of you read a book by S.G. JURKOW "Asia in Beijing's policy " ?
(Title translated from Polish). It was published in an international series named " Maoism - a threat to the world ". I have my own copy in Polish. It's a book revealing Chinese plans towards Asia and whole world. China wants to take over the world, starting with Asia. That's not a joke, but a serious fact. They want to do it, and will use every possible way to success. Including very cruel and brutal. They've been conspiring since 1950's and won't stop, I'm afraid.
So, beware!
(Title translated from Polish). It was published in an international series named " Maoism - a threat to the world ". I have my own copy in Polish. It's a book revealing Chinese plans towards Asia and whole world. China wants to take over the world, starting with Asia. That's not a joke, but a serious fact. They want to do it, and will use every possible way to success. Including very cruel and brutal. They've been conspiring since 1950's and won't stop, I'm afraid.
So, beware!
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Loredoctor
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Lord Mhoram
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Revelstone_dweller
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YES, Lord Mhoram - GLOBAL DOMINATION. That's true!
It's not the matter of stupidity - they want more and more power. I've got this book, and for me their plans are obvious. They have already made steps to destabilize the governments of Laos, Vietnam, Mongolia and India (and other countries). They claim teritory rights to many Asian countries. Their target is annexation of other countries' territories. And Mao Tse-Tung on 11 September 1959 on their communistic assembly said that China's target is a global domination. This policy is continued until now.
It's not the matter of stupidity - they want more and more power. I've got this book, and for me their plans are obvious. They have already made steps to destabilize the governments of Laos, Vietnam, Mongolia and India (and other countries). They claim teritory rights to many Asian countries. Their target is annexation of other countries' territories. And Mao Tse-Tung on 11 September 1959 on their communistic assembly said that China's target is a global domination. This policy is continued until now.
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Edinburghemma
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(AAAAARGH edit like mad).
Having said that, a good deal of academic observers view that China shall indeed have economic world dominion within the next 50 years. I would agree with this. It is inevitable that one state shall have more power than others, social and political equilibrium is impossible. The US system is crumbling under enormous debt, social deprivation, and the inability of the people to elect intelligent, outward looking leaders. The world outwith the US, generally hates America. Even in Britain, our patience for our transtlantic cousins is rapidly running out. I do not relish the thought of Chinese dominion (atleast I won't have to start learning the lingo!), but I welcome the messy end of the US. (Now who's sounding like a generalising idiot, sorry folks) (also quoting Mao from 1959 is a tad ... come on.........)
Having said that, a good deal of academic observers view that China shall indeed have economic world dominion within the next 50 years. I would agree with this. It is inevitable that one state shall have more power than others, social and political equilibrium is impossible. The US system is crumbling under enormous debt, social deprivation, and the inability of the people to elect intelligent, outward looking leaders. The world outwith the US, generally hates America. Even in Britain, our patience for our transtlantic cousins is rapidly running out. I do not relish the thought of Chinese dominion (atleast I won't have to start learning the lingo!), but I welcome the messy end of the US. (Now who's sounding like a generalising idiot, sorry folks) (also quoting Mao from 1959 is a tad ... come on.........)
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Dragonlily
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A problem common to most of the other countries of the world, including China.edinburghemma wrote:The US system is crumbling under enormous debt, social deprivation, and the inability of the people to elect intelligent, outward looking leaders.
"The universe is made of stories, not atoms." -- Roger Penrose
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Emma wrote:Having said that, a good deal of academic observers view that China shall indeed have economic world dominion within the next 50 years. I would agree with this. It is inevitable that one state shall have more power than others, social and political equilibrium is impossible. The US system is crumbling under enormous debt, social deprivation, and the inability of the people to elect intelligent, outward looking leaders. The world outwith the US, generally hates America. Even in Britain, our patience for our transtlantic cousins is rapidly running out. I do not relish the thought of Chinese dominion (atleast I won't have to start learning the lingo!), but I welcome the messy end of the US. (Now who's sounding like a generalising idiot, sorry folks)
China still has a great deal of reform ahead if it wants to continue the growth rates it’s shown over the past few years. Per capita income is still very low however the sheer size of the labor force helps boost gross domestic productivity. As I’ve stated before China may face fragmentation before it has a chance to reach those lofty goals predicted unless it does something to address the inequities in standard of living amongst its population. Stay tuned.
Moving on…
Where do you see evidence of the “US system crumbling”? You cite, “social deprivation” (a very odd term. I suspect you mean social decay, social degradation or some other similarly vague yet condemnatory term) and lack of leadership yet you predict the ascension of China in your first and second sentences. Am I missing something? Or I am just blind to the quality of life in China and the visionary leadership of Hu Jintao and the Communist Party of China?
As far as the US debt is concerned you do realize that a floating currency in the world market tends to seek an equilibrium. In other words the recent declines in the value of the dollar due in some part to increased debt, help lift American industry by making US products cheaper in countries with strengthening currencies. Thus, in the short term the debt helps the US economy and is contributing to an economic recovery after a slight downturn. And, regardless of the so-called debt-crisis the US is still a magnet for foreign investment hardly indicating a crisis of confidence in the US economy.
And if other nations hate the US, well that’s unfortunate but it seems to me that immigration rates tell a different story. The US still seems to be a fairly desirable destination. In truth, I think a lot of that hatred is just envy but that’s just MHO. Keep hoping for that “messy end” Emma…I’m sure the world will be a lot better place without Imperialist Amerika and it’s power hungry leaders.
