Backstory questions

[DrPaul]

Whilst we would not want the backstory to overshadow the story in TLD, I'm sure that we all have questions about the Land's history that we'd be interested to see answered.

One (which I think I've mentioned in another forum) is the question of where Berek and, after him, Damelon would have had their capital before the Giants created Revelstone. As we know that Berek and the Theomach sailed on a major voyage, and as the Giantships of the Unhomed presumably must have had somewhere to moor when they reached the Land, there must have already been a significant seaport and settlement in the Land in Berek's time. An obvious candidate for the location would be in the vicinity of Seareach, especially given what we're told in the First and Second Chronicles about the richness of the land and soil in Seareach's hinterland, and what we know about the uncongeniality of the Lower Land from Lifeswallower all the way south.

That's one question. I'm sure we can think of others.

[Akasri]

I was under the impression that the Giants build Seareach. I'm not sure anything was there when they arrived.

[dlbpharmd]

While I understand the idea that Berek and the Theomach must have sailed to the One Tree, we don't know for certain that they did. The One Tree could have been in a different location during Berek's time.

[DrPaul]

While I understand the idea that Berek and the Theomach must have sailed to the One Tree, we don't know for certain that they did. The One Tree could have been in a different location during Berek's time.

I've done some checking, and found Stave saying this to Linden on p.476 of FR (Gollancz edition):

"It was the Vizard's word that the Theomach had joined himself to a great Lord in a land beyond our mountains to the east. In the Lord's company, he had quested far across the Earth, risking Nicor and the Soulbiter and many other perils to discover the hiding place of the One Tree."

As to whether Berek and the Theomach would have sailed from a port in or near Seareach, we can certainly rule out the entire coastline from Lifeswallower to well south of Foul's Creche. Seareach was evidently suitable for the Giants to use as a port for their ships, so it would have been suitable for this use by humans before the Giants arrived. Further, every description of the hinterland of Seareach describes it as a naturally abundant region. Remember that in TOT Sevinhand was able to provision Starfare's Gem from what was growing wild in the area. It is unlikely that people wouldn't have found and settled in such a hospitable area in the millennia before the Giants arrived.

It is possible that Berek might have sailed from some port south of what we see on the maps that was maintained by the monarchy of Doriendor Corishev, and that this might have been subsequently abandoned as part of the series of events in which Doriendor Corishev was abandoned. But it seems more plausible to suppose that the Giants arrived and were found by Damelon near Seareach, and that this location was deemed suitable by both parties for the Giants to settle.

[Mega Fauna Blitzkrieg]

I've never really been clear as to how much of the land north of Doom's Retreat was populated by whatever kingdom Berek came from. Or if it was settled and cultureized in a meaningful way, or if it was a a loose assortment of logging camps in the land.

Anyways, if the need was great enough, he might have set sail from any random part of the coast in a rowboat? That seems pretty unlikely for sure, but I don't think we should assume there was some kind of port city, just because Berek traveled on the sea.

[Billy G.]

Maybe the Theomach found a portal so there would be no need of a ship?

[DrPaul]

I've never really been clear as to how much of the land north of Doom's Retreat was populated by whatever kingdom Berek came from. Or if it was settled and cultureized in a meaningful way, or if it was a a loose assortment of logging camps in the land.

Anyways, if the need was great enough, he might have set sail from any random part of the coast in a rowboat? That seems pretty unlikely for sure, but I don't think we should assume there was some kind of port city, just because Berek traveled on the sea.

We shouldn't assume it, but it's certainly worth raising as a question, which is the point of this thread.

[DrPaul]

Maybe the Theomach found a portal so there would be no need of a ship?

I thought of that, and it seemed plausible given what we're told about the Theomach's powers, but then I found the quote from Stave that refers to Berek and the Theomach having to deal with nicor and the Soulbiter during their journey.

[Mighara Sovmadhi]

In some speculative fan fiction I've worked on regarding Berek, I have the Theomach's steed (assuming he had one like the Harrow and the Ardent) play a major role in Berek and Ardenol making their way across the Sunbirth Sea.

[dlbpharmd]

While I understand the idea that Berek and the Theomach must have sailed to the One Tree, we don't know for certain that they did. The One Tree could have been in a different location during Berek's time.

I've done some checking, and found Stave saying this to Linden on p.476 of FR (Gollancz edition):

"It was the Vizard's word that the Theomach had joined himself to a great Lord in a land beyond our mountains to the east. In the Lord's company, he had quested far across the Earth, risking Nicor and the Soulbiter and many other perils to discover the hiding place of the One Tree."
.

Doh! Wow, I don't know how I ever missed that.

[DWOLF]

In some speculative fan fiction I've worked on regarding Berek, I have the Theomach's steed (assuming he had one like the Harrow and the Ardent) play a major role in Berek and Ardenol making their way across the Sunbirth Sea.

Hey - do you have a link to your fan fiction? I would like to read it and I promise to be nice no matter what it is like.

[mod edit - quote function added]

[Mighara Sovmadhi]

Unfortunately, I seem to have lost the relevant file... But "The Durance of the Earth" and "Kevin's Song" in the Hall of Gifts here (I think is where they are) are examples of Covenant fanfics I've worked on having to do with the original quest to capture Kastenessen and the war with the Viles, if not Berek and the Theomach.

[iQuestor]

In some speculative fan fiction I've worked on regarding Berek, I have the Theomach's steed (assuming he had one like the Harrow and the Ardent) play a major role in Berek and Ardenol making their way across the Sunbirth Sea.

Hey - do you have a link to your fan fiction? I would like to read it and I promise to be nice no matter what it is like.

[mod edit - quote function added]

DWOLF -- here is a link to the fanfic I wrote if you would like something to read. It's called "it cannot now be set aside, nor passed on.." and its about Korik, Sill and Doar's failed mission to confront Foul the the Illearth fragment they recovered from kinslaughterer in Coercri. There are 2 parts, I am very late on the 3rd part, which is the ending. Its posted in the Hall Of Gifts.

[aliantha]

Yeah -- about that 3rd part, bud...

[iQuestor]

Yeah -- about that 3rd part, bud...

I know. *sigh* I need to get it done. its on my bucket list.

Ive started several times but wasnt happy with it. I went back and re-read the first two parts last night to get my mind back thinking about it.

[TheFallen]

Having just finished my entire re-read - dammit, got the timing wrong... still a week or more to go - there are plenty of started narrative threads that it'd be good to see fleshed out a little more.

I'd like to hear more about Kastenessen and Emereau Vrai. About how the relationship came about. About how it was ended, the creation of the mere-wives and the imprisoning of Kastenessen within his durance.

I'd also like to hear more on the original elohim guardian of the one tree and how he/she became the first of the Appointed - and how the Theomach overcame him/her.

I'd like a bit more detail on how the ravers came into being.

I'd like to know more about the original Forestals as well.

I can live without more backstory on Foul's corruption of Jerrick and the other Demimages of Vidik Amar and the perversion of the quellvisks, though. That'd be asking too much, methinks.

I wonder if any of the above will be addressed?

PS I have to say - and this is my third-re-read - that many of my problems with The Last Chronicles seem now to have evaporated. Of course, I acknowledge that this might be an unwitting product of excitement at the imminent arrival of TLD, but I don't think so. I've appreciated The Last Chronicles increasingly upon each reading of them and as such, I think it's to do with expectation. When I first read ROTE and FR, I undoubtedly had subliminal expectations as to what they'd be like - subconsciously basing these upon the 1st and 2nd Chrons - and the Last Chrons didn't live up to these expectations... they're very different. It now strikes me that my initial snap judgement was flawed and frankly unfair - there's no reason why after 20 or so years, SRD should or even could have written in exactly the same vein. Yes, the Last Chrons are stylistically and tonally different - the author's focus concentrates far more on the internal motivations of his protagonists, rather than the external. To put it simplistically, we have much more of a psychodrama rather than an action-rich epic - but that doesn't diminish the Last Chrons in any perceptible way. For all their superficially problematic pacing, their less than three-dimensional characterisations of most of their cast and their often shockingly swift disposal of characters once they've served their narrative purpose, they're still masterful in their own right. Just in a different way.

[call11back]

PS I have to say - and this is my third-re-read - that many of my problems with The Last Chronicles seem now to have evaporated. Of course, I acknowledge that this might be an unwitting product of excitement at the imminent arrival of TLD, but I don't think so. I've appreciated The Last Chronicles increasingly upon each reading of them and as such, I think it's to do with expectation.

Strangely enough, my experience is quite different. I have re-read this series considerably more than three times, and I have found this time that I am suprisingly appreciating Donaldson's writing in the first half of Lord's Foul Bane more than I have ever done so before. On this re-read I am noticing his painstaking attention to the little details that make the Land seem real.