Weren't the Amnion cool?

[wayfriend]

Avatar wrote:
By their own standards, they're not villainous at all. Very Happy

--A


You think?

I think they're well aware of how their actions horrify humans. And to be aware and continue to pursue it is fairly villainous, in my book.

^^^THIS!

That is the heart of the matter, I agree. But I have a different conclusion.

Because the notion that it is fairly villainous to pursue actions that horrify others is a human notion. It arises, perhaps, from our need to act as a community of individuals; it arises from our empathy.

But can we expect the Amnion to have such a notion? Do they have empathy? And if they do, would they empathize with aliens? They have to borg a human just to know what the hell humans are up to, because they don't share any basis of understanding with humans.

Perhaps Marc Vestabule might understand that Amnion actions horrify humans. But the Amnion would only learn this as an intellectual curiosity. It would not trouble them, it would only facter into their calculations. Beings without human emotions won't act from human compassion.

[Cord Hurn]

Right, but by Holt Fasner's standards, his selfish attempts to have eternal life were for the good of humanity. Villains seldom think of their own acts as being villainous.

Of course. But then, why should we expect the Amnion to want what is good for humanity? They want what is good for the Amnion and act accordingly. They're not hurting any Amnion by doing it.

Is it just expect an alien race to put our well-being above their own? Or even to have the same idea of what that constitutes?

The point about aliens is they're alien. There is no shared frame of reference or experience. They could have motives that we would be incapable of understanding.

--A

Well, my inclination in debate is often to go to the text and provide quotes to see if I can bolster my own point of view. However, in this case, reflecting that you've read the Gap Cycle uncounted times while I've only read it once----you may well have memorized most of it, so I will yield to your more experienced interpretation. You win, Avatar!
(And come to think of it, I cannot remember any time when an Amnioni cheated or harmed another of its kind. They're like the Borg, as wayfriend has said, and like the aliens in the Sigourney Weaver sci-fi flicks: "You don't see any of THEM screwing each other over for a god-damned percentage!"--from the second movie)

[Avatar]

Hahaha, it's not a zero-sum game. There's no winners, just an exchange of perception.

The Amnion are villains to us because their objectives threaten us. Are they inherently evil? Only by our own standards of evil being what hurts us.

--A

[Cord Hurn]

Are they inherently evil? Only by our own standards of evil being what hurts us.

Well then, that's good enough for me!

Yes, the Amnion were cool!!! Insidious, vindictive, relentless, and a whole bunch more flattering villainous adjectives, besides....

WHAT IT IS!!!

[Avatar]

Of course, we're evil too...

--A

[Cagliostro]

I thought we were the good guys!

[Avatar]

Everybody is "evil" to somebody.

--A

[Vraith]

Everybody is "evil" to somebody.

--A

And everybody WANTS to be evil to somebody.
Not to mention the irresistible other evil one enjoys gazing upon and holding to...

[Cord Hurn]

Everybody is "evil" to somebody.

--A

And everybody WANTS to be evil to somebody.

I can buy this.

Not to mention the irresistible other evil one enjoys gazing upon and holding to...

I'm not sure what you mean, here.

[Vraith]

Not to mention the irresistible other evil one enjoys gazing upon and holding to...

I'm not sure what you mean, here.

Oh, you know...
Sure, he's a Vampire...but look at those ABS!
She may be a demons, but soooooo hot!

[Cord Hurn]

Not to mention the irresistible other evil one enjoys gazing upon and holding to...

I'm not sure what you mean, here.

Oh, you know...
Sure, he's a Vampire...but look at those ABS!
She may be a demons, but soooooo hot!

Thanks, Vraith, I understand now.