The Reason Berek and Covenant are one in the same...

[Fist and Faith]

When I saw who had the last post in the forum, I didn't even need to know what thread the post was in to know I was about to get some grief.

And your birthday isn't for another couple of months...

Says the older Watcher.

[Furls Fire]

Oh, now that was low...really really low

[Fist and Faith]

[Furls Fire]

eeeeeeewwwwwww!! Fisty cooties!!!

heh

******************

Uh, back on topic...

I don't think Tommy is Berek...it would be...as SRD would say...too easy.

But, I have no doubt, that somehow, someway...they come together. And it will be in a way that we couldn't possibly fathom. That's the way of SRD...

[Fist and Faith]

Agreed. (About the story and SRD, not the cooties.)

[Kenaustin Ardenol]

SRD only said "the old Lords would be revisited" this most likely will take place in the telling of a tale not any actual time travel, besides it would take a series of time travel's to revisit all the old lords as they existed over a couple of thousand years. Berek is berek, otherwise he would have been called Covenant or Tom or Thomas or Jeremiah. If it does involve time travel I think it will be Linden on her own and lost in time.

[variol son]

[Fatal Revenant spoiler]

Spoiler

However, the Amazon.com blurb on Fatal Revenant strongly suggests time travel, with Linden meeting someone famous from the Land's past.

[mod edit]

[Nom vs. Vain]

What bothers me about what everyone is saying about how this would be a terrible ending... and SRD would never write that cheesy of an ending...

First of all he does write some cheesy endings, I beleive that has been established and second who here thinks that SRD couldn't possibly write well enough to pull this off? Do you really have such a low opinion to his skills? If so why are you here?

I also would like to say that Mr. Milton has a good question has yet to have been answered... If Berek and Covenant are not one in the same then how did Berek know about White gold and yet not posses any of his own. If you'll think open mindedly you might notice that Linden has Covenants ring now and Time travel is happening You ought to consider the possibility that Covenant has gone back to the time of the old lords just as SRD said we would go back.

I personally think that SRD is a fantastic writer with more vision than we can imagine and his cyclical story lines would show that somehow this will all go full circle just like the symble of covenants ring.

[Mr. Milton Milquetoast]

By the way has anyone found out that they now have a cure for leprosey?

Milton

[dlbpharmd]

What bothers me about what everyone is saying about how this would be a terrible ending... and SRD would never write that cheesy of an ending...

First of all he does write some cheesy endings, I beleive that has been established and second who here thinks that SRD couldn't possibly write well enough to pull this off? Do you really have such a low opinion to his skills? If so why are you here?

I also would like to say that Mr. Milton has a good question has yet to have been answered... If Berek and Covenant are not one in the same then how did Berek know about White gold and yet not posses any of his own. If you'll think open mindedly you might notice that Linden has Covenants ring now and Time travel is happening You ought to consider the possibility that Covenant has gone back to the time of the old lords just as SRD said we would go back.

I personally think that SRD is a fantastic writer with more vision than we can imagine and his cyclical story lines would show that somehow this will all go full circle just like the symble of covenants ring.

When did SRD ever say that Covenant would go back in time to the Old Lords?

Someone help me - what evidence do we have that Berek knew of white gold? I honestly can't remember.

[Buckarama]

This is a big spoiler! read at your own risk!

Spoiler

I don't believe it's TC that goes back, however

Fatal Revenant, Book Two of "The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant," begins where The Runes of the Earth ended: Linden Avery watches from a balcony while Thomas Covenant and her adopted son, Jeremiah, ride desperately toward Revelstone. But their reunion has vast consequences which she could not have foreseen. Soon she is betrayed by the people whom she most needs to trust. Transported deep into the Land's past, she is forced to confront mysterious strangers, legendary heroes, and ancient evils, and to stand alone against the malevolence of the Despiser's minions. Abandoned in Garroting Deep, the most bloodthirsty of the Land's long-dead forests, she reaches a fearsome decision: she determines to reshape reality in an attempt to end the Despiser's evil and her son's suffering. However, her purpose requires her to find Loric's krill, a weapon abandoned among the Hills of Andelain millennia ago. And she needs the aid of friends and allies who will turn against her if she reveals her intent. Attacked by enemies old and new, and harried by strange beings with ambiguous agendas, she strives toward Andelain. But the ravenous skurj are rising, and all of her actions appear to serve her worst foes.

[/spoiler]

[Mr. Milton Milquetoast]

That sounds like a set up for Covenant/Berek to go back in time to battle for his queen and call down the fire lions at Mt. Thunder. He knows how to do it now.

Milton

[drew]

That last spoiler..being the blurb on Amazon about FR can easily be taken out of context.

SRD never intended it to be in print.

Spoiler

"Trasported Deep into the Land's Past"

Doesn't have to mean "time travel"--

In the Chapter 'Sions of Stone',

Spoiler

Anele 'Time Travels' in a sense, to tell the tale of the One Forest.
Linden could just as easily 'Travel" in her own mind to learn more about the past...she's already doen it during the Horserite

[dlbpharmd]

Hmmmmm - seems like a stretch, Drew.

[drew]

I dunno, I'm trasnported deep into the Land everytime I read the books.

[Fist and Faith]

First of all he does write some cheesy endings, I beleive that has been established and second who here thinks that SRD couldn't possibly write well enough to pull this off? Do you really have such a low opinion to his skills? If so why are you here?

Personally, I'm not as concerned with the cheesiness of such an ending as I am with the predictability. Although I think SRD could write it, and write it well, I've NEVER guessed one single thing that was coming before I read it. SRD has never been predictable, but Covenant-becomes-Berek has been a fun idea we've been joking about for decades.

I personally think that SRD is a fantastic writer with more vision than we can imagine and his cyclical story lines would show that somehow this will all go full circle just like the symble of covenants ring.

I agree on everything in this paragraph. I just don't think Covenant-becomes-Berek is the only way things could be considered "full circle."

OK, getting back to this:

Riddle me this how did the people of the land know of the white gold when it did not exist in their world?

All that and no answer to the question. How did the people of the land know about white gold??

I also would like to say that Mr. Milton has a good question has yet to have been answered... If Berek and Covenant are not one in the same then how did Berek know about White gold and yet not posses any of his own.

Someone help me - what evidence do we have that Berek knew of white gold? I honestly can't remember.

In point of fact, we don't know that Berek knew about white gold. When Atiaran first saw his ring, she told Covenant:

"There is no white gold in the Land. Gold has never been found in the Earth, though it is said that Berek knew of it, and made the songs."

Note the words it is said. She does not say this is among the information found in the First Ward. It's a legend. Maybe Berek isn't the source of the Land's knowledge of white gold. But whether he is or not, and I'm perfectly willing to believe he is, he may have learned of it another way. Kasreyn did:

"But you possess the white gold." Behind their rheum, his orbs seemed to have no color. "It is an imperfect metal - an unnatural alliance of metals - and in all the Earth it exists nowhere but in the ring you bear. My arts have spoken to me of such a periapt, but never did I dream that the white gold itself would fall to me. The white gold!"

If we are to believe another of Atiaran's legends, Berek had his own source of information: the Earthpower. We have no way of knowing what the Earthpower told Berek, or if it spoke to him in the same manner as it did on Mt. Thunder, but if it didn't give him some specific information at some point, I can't imagine how to explain this:

"Wielding the first Earthpower, he made the Staff of Law from the One Tree, and with it began the healing of the Land."

How did Berek know how to wield the Earthpower? How did he know where the One Tree was? How did he know how to get a branch off the One Tree without waking the Worm? If the Earthpower give him all that information, I don't know why it would be impossible for it to have told him about white gold. If the Earthpower only gave him a hint, and he was smart enough to figure out how to wield the Earthpower, find the One Tree, and safely cut off a branch, I don't know why it would be impossible for him to have figured out about white gold.

Of course, there's another possible explanation. As we've been discussing, there's lots of time travelling going on. There's no reason Berek can't see Covenant, Roger, Linden, and/or Joan using one of the rings, or even talk with the user.

Now, NvV and MMM, you've been very insistent that this point be addressed. My answers are certainly not definitive. But then, neither is "Covenant becomes Berek." We're all just throwing ideas out. In the next several years, we'll find out if any of these ideas is right. But for now, I'd like you to address my points. Why are the two ideas I just presented invalid? Or, if they're not particularly invalid, what reasons are there to assume your idea over either of them? Of course, your answers must include counterarguments for all the points I mentioned that give me reason to think Covenant is not Berek.

[Tulizar]

That last spoiler..being the blurb on Amazon about FR can easily be taken out of context.

SRD never intended it to be in print.

Spoiler

"Trasported Deep into the Land's Past"

Doesn't have to mean "time travel"--

In the Chapter 'Sions of Stone',

Spoiler

Anele 'Time Travels' in a sense, to tell the tale of the One Forest.
Linden could just as easily 'Travel" in her own mind to learn more about the past...she's already doen it during the Horserite

I can buy that. The spoiler could certainly be figurative. At one point, stepping into Andelain was like being transported deep into the Land's past. That forest was unchanged for centuries. A person who walked through those woods wpuld probably have experienced what the Land was like ages ago.

I'm not a big fan of time travel--hopefully there'll be very little of it in the upcoming novels. I'm sure SRD can pull it off. I hope it isn't used to change history or get advice from the old lords--that just seems so lame.

[Tulizar]

Now, NvV and MMM, you've been very insistent that this point be addressed. My answers are certainly not definitive. But then, neither is "Covenant becomes Berek." We're all just throwing ideas out. In the next several years, we'll find out if any of these ideas is right. But for now, I'd like you to address my points. Why are the two ideas I just presented invalid? Or, if they're not particularly invalid, what reasons are there to assume your idea over either of them? Of course, your answers must include counterarguments for all the points I mentioned that give me reason to think Covenant is not Berek.

C'mon Fist just admit you're wrong. You are a deluded fool hiding behind quotes that are obviously taken out of context!

[Fist and Faith]

As if!!!!

[Tulizar]

As if!!!!