Kevin's Watch

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:07 pm**

My pleasure, sir. It's always enjoyable to see a professional work.

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:09 pm**

By all means Hyperception should be teaching on this thread. . . not just visiting it.

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:17 pm**

Hyperception wrote:Because there are no easily available Latin to English translators on the web, I refer those of you with time and inclination to verify the following information by playing around with the tools at www.perseus.tufts.edu. It is the definitive word study tool.

Nimis, L., exceedingly is an adverb and therefore can not modify a noun.

Allium, L., garlic is the modern spelling of the classic Latin alium and is a noun.

In this case, the preferred form of nimius, meaning “too much,” is either nominative neuter or accusative masculine (with the implied verb habere, “to have”). In both cases, the object of this word must take a genitive form. Hence, allii. I prefer the modern spelling to distinguish “garlic” from “another.”

I don’t mean to sound pedantic, but I like to think the last twenty years of intermittent classical study haven’t been wasted.

(and thanks, EL)

Oh dear gods, now I'm officially frightened. After two semesters of Czech, I was almost able to sort out the cases you're talking about.

So Latin wouldn't have another word to use than "exceedingly", in this case? There's no adjective for "more" that you could add an adverbial "over and above" to? (I think, without running to a Spanish-English online translator, that "too much" would be "demasiado" in Spanish.)

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:23 pm**

I'm not finding a word with the exact definition of "Too Much" in my dictionary.

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:26 pm**

Stonemaybe wrote: Edit: So it should be 'allii nimis' then?

*shaking head*

No, Stoney.
What he had me PM you originally.

nimium allii

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:42 pm**

Menolly wrote:
Stonemaybe wrote: Edit: So it should be 'allii nimis' then?
*shaking head*

No, Stoney.
What he had me PM you originally.

nimium allii

Mmmm that had me confused until I re-read

In this case, the preferred form of nimius, meaning “too much,” is either nominative neuter or accusative masculine (with the implied verb habere, “to have”).

So we're sort of imagining that I'm saying 'to have too much garlic' (but leaving out habere)? Therefore nimis becomes accusative, nimium? My vaguely recollected Latin would say that nimius would become nimium, but that nimis wouldn't, in the accusative. (ok just discovered that nimius is the same or > nimis, which explains nimium)

To think, as a 15yo I could do this easy, sigh!

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:47 pm**

I love Latin. . . makes my synapses spark.

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:57 pm**

Just remember that nimis can only modify a verb or adverb while nimius (nimium, most often) works as if it were a specific amount OF something...BTW, this thread might actually pay better than being a teaching assistant at university--here I don't have to pay for the privilege of knowing stuff...

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:57 pm**

Wyldewode wrote:I love Latin. . . makes my synapses spark.

I'd hope they'd spark on their own...

...

...but if they don't, that would explain why you're not afraid of Zombies.

You are one!

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:44 pm**

Okay, Mr. Pre-Med. . . Latin makes my synapes spark double time.

And Hyperception, feel free to come and talk Latin--or smack--here anytime!

Posted: **Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:03 pm**

Hyperception wrote:Just remember that nimis can only modify a verb or adverb while nimius (nimium, most often) works as if it were a specific amount OF something...BTW, this thread might actually pay better than being a teaching assistant at university--here I don't have to pay for the privilege of knowing stuff...

so are you saying that 'nimis alius' was correct grammatically but not in actual meaning? 'nimius' means 'too much OF' so the noun associated with it must be genitive case, therefore alius becomes alium? lost again, cos alium is accusative not genitive, isn't it?

thinking about it, I'm thinking of 'of' as genitive 'belonging to' but in this case 'of' isn't belonging to it's something else. accusative, obviously.

or not so obviously perhaps

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:30 am**

Stonemaybe wrote:so are you saying that 'nimis alius' was correct grammatically but not in actual meaning?

No, nimis would have to modify a verb, so the closest you could come would be something like "to have exceedingly some garlic," so that the exceedingly would modify the "have." In this case, the garlic would be allium in the accusative, as the object of "have."

Stonemaybe wrote:'nimius' means 'too much OF' so the noun associated with it must be genitive case, therefore alius becomes alium? lost again, cos alium is accusative not genitive, isn't it?

Actually, allius would become allii except in the case that it turned out to be a neuter i-stem (a technicality I haven't looked up).

Stonemaybe wrote:thinking about it, I'm thinking of 'of' as genitive 'belonging to' but in this case 'of' isn't belonging to it's something else. accusative, obviously.

The genitive is associated with quantity, not possession.

Stonemaybe wrote:or not so obviously perhaps

The whole thing is non-obvious.

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:33 am**

It's I Stem.

[edit]

Allium is I stem.

Alium can be either alii or ali.

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:36 am**

*Hyperception muttering to himself as he walks away from the laptop*

Next thing you know, they'll start an ancient Greek thread, and I'll have to give a discourse on oxymoron when I am less allergic and have more energy.

...I really do need to drag him on to the Watch more often...

(blame me, EL. He dictated, I typed.)

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:39 am**

Menolly wrote:*Hyperception muttering to himself as he walks away from the laptop*

Next thing you know, they'll start an ancient Greek thread, and I'll have to give a discourse on oxymoron when I am less allergic and have more energy.

...I really do need to drag him on to the Watch more often...

(blame me, EL. He dictated, I typed.)

If you're in the mood to tease him, Menolly, tell him that I attempted to teach myself Ancient Greek as well. But I have no plans on making that thread any time soon!

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:44 am**

Wyldewode wrote:
Menolly wrote:*Hyperception muttering to himself as he walks away from the laptop*

Next thing you know, they'll start an ancient Greek thread, and I'll have to give a discourse on oxymoron when I am less allergic and have more energy.

...I really do need to drag him on to the Watch more often...

(blame me, EL. He dictated, I typed.)
If you're in the mood to tease him, Menolly, tell him that I attempted to teach myself Ancient Greek as well. But I have no plans on making that thread any time soon!

I can go upstairs later and see if I can dig out my dad's books on classical greek

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:46 am**

At this point I can do little more than recognize the letters.

Now my best friend Jules took 2 years of ancient greek at university. We both had to have a foreign language, and she's the linguist.

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:49 am**

Emotional Leper wrote:It's I Stem.

[edit]

Allium is I stem.

Alium can be either alii or ali.

Thanks, EL. If allium is I stem, then genitive singular should still be allii, but genitive plural becomes more interesting. Would it be allium or alliorum? In any case, we are not likely to get too much of garlics!

Emotional Leper wrote:
Wyldewode wrote: If you're in the mood to tease him, Menolly, tell him that I attempted to teach myself Ancient Greek as well. But I have no plans on making that thread any time soon!
I can go upstairs later and see if I can dig out my dad's books on classical greek

What have I done???

There's a reason they call it attic...

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:51 am**

Note left on column close to physics department: "This column is Ionic."

Posted: **Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:52 am**

Nice.

Kevin's Watch

Latin With Lyr--All are welcome!