Kevin's Watch

well...i'd best weigh in on this male/female character thing.

i do think it is sort of difficult (not impossible, just difficult) for a
man to write a good female character, unless, that is, he has a really
good handle on what exactly it is that makes a woman a woman and
different from a man.
and vice versa (for women to write really good male characters)

everyone has their own ideas about what makes women "feminine"
and what makes men "masculine" and rarely do we agree on such.
heh.

however, being a woman, i absolutely LOVE the women in erikson's
world. i was struck by the lack of gender bias' immediately in his writing.
that, i think, is a strong point of the story. and, in fact, he's got it right i think. when it comes to war and dire circumstances, we're all just human aren't we?
don't get me wrong, there are a great many differences between the sexes and how they think and operate in extreme circumstances but i
as a woman can find no objectionable passage in this series whereby
erikson does women a disservice in his portrayals.
what he does do is refuse to play to stereotypical and overworked character portrayal in fantasy, and does it well.
(i might add that i think Tolkien does this well too! i loved all
his female characters!)

he's imagined and created a world wherein gender or sex is absolutely
a non-issue. i can take part in this world without having to remind myself that erikson is a man and doesn't have a clue about women. phew. what a friggin RELIEF!!

oh yeah, later in the series there are some AWESOME female characters!!

Spoiler

seren pedec, janal, hetan, and scilara just to name a few!

btw, just finished DoD. awesome. it's stopped my re-read in its tracks.
i now can't go backward anymore.

I just finished Gardens of the Moon, and was left terribly disappointed... that I dont yet own Deadhouse Gates. Im very excited to have a whole new mythology to obsess over. Im astounded by Erikson's ability to juggle multiple characters, and seemingly unrelated plot lines, while at the same time presenting no more information than the reader can process. Great read that left me wanting more.

Just wait. GotM is nothing compared to DHG.

--A

Mr. Broken wrote:I just finished Gardens of the Moon, and was left terribly disappointed... that I dont yet own Deadhouse Gates. Im very excited to have a whole new mythology to obsess over. Im astounded by Erikson's ability to juggle multiple characters, and seemingly unrelated plot lines, while at the same time presenting no more information than the reader can process. Great read that left me wanting more.

zomg! really??? WOOT!! somebody who DIDN'T get turned off by GotM!! woooo hoodey!!


we are in the minority Mr. B in case you didn't know that. it seems that
a lot of people were not hooked like myself upon reading erikson's first
book, which i found super surprising because i had hardly gotten 5 paragraphs into the prologue when i realized i loved it. however, Avatar is right, if you liked GotM Deadhouse Gates is going to knock you out!

Seriously, how many of you like GotM nearly as much as luci and I do? Strange, but there ya go.


And yes. Mother of God, Deadhouse Gates is extraordinary! Few things I've ever read compare to it. (Although I like Memories of Ice even better. But that's not a universally-held opinion, either. Heh.)

Onos T'oolan wrote:Seriously, how many of you like GotM nearly as much as luci and I do? Strange, but there ya go.


And yes. Mother of God, Deadhouse Gates is extraordinary! Few things I've ever read compare to it. (Although I like Memories of Ice even better. But that's not a universally-held opinion, either. Heh.)

/nodnod i know lots of people who continued on to DG either on their own despite their misgivings about the writing or because someone urged
them to, but i know just as many people that either couldn't get through it or finished but read no more of the series.

ps i LOVE MoI. DG is the ONLY book of the series i have not read more than once and that was only beacause it's just NOT a "casual" read. it was brutal to me. i WANT to read it again and have tried a couple of times but i can barely make it through that first part

Spoiler

with the priest with the blood and flies all over him.

Don't listen to them, Mr B! Gardens is better than Deadhouse.


(*running*)

Stonemaybe wrote:Don't listen to them, Mr B! Gardens is better than Deadhouse.


(*running*)

are you kidding? or semi-serious?

When I read Night of Knives I realized immediately the experience was going to be just like the story I was reading learn quick , or die. GOTM was the same, I started reading and it was like walking deeper into a swimming pool full of new mythology, every step I took brought me closer to being in over my head, out of my depth you might say. Then when the water started to tickle my upper lip, I took one more step , and ....... then everything starts to click, retention of names, events, and vocabulary, fantastic. The myriad of characters, affiliations, and the fact that you really have no idea who's side anyone is on, whether they are a villain, or hero makes a re-read absolutely essential. All in good time Ill try to find the rest of Erikson's work , probably Esselmonts as well, it will give me something to occupy myself with until the next Chronicles novel is released.

Heh. That's a good description.

It IS a good description! I remember feeling that excitement too (but you've described it better than i could, Mr B) - a seemingly HUGE (and very ) new universe to explore.

I enjoyed some of DHG, but alot of it was very annoying and seemingly going nowhere, whereas I wanted Mr Erikson to answer all the questions I had after reading Gardens. I might be willing to admit that my disappointment in DHG was due to the fact that my expectations were different from what I actually got.

Onos T'oolan wrote:Seriously, how many of you like GotM nearly as much as luci and I do? Strange, but there ya go.

Well, he had the advantage of reading NoK first. I enjoyed GotM a lot more once I'd read all the other books. On both my 2nd and 3rd rereads of it, it was much better. Because now I had a context for the characters and stuff.

(MoI was also a lot better on my 2nd read. More meaningful.)

--A

The thing that keeps me picking GOTM up and reading it again after being totally clueless about what was going on, was the excitement you all have for the next books. I just bought the next two books in the series and I picked up GOTM yet again so that I can get to those other books.

I hope it takes this time. Yes, indeed, the excitement is extreme! I've never read half as many pages nearly as quickly.

I guess you already don't like GotM as much as I did, or it wouldn't take a few tries. Heh. But others seem to feel that way, so you're not alone. And even though I do thing it's very good, it's not nearly as great as the masterpieces that follow.

Well, it *is* a tough series to get into. Erikson doesn't help the reader much at all -- just throws you directly into the mayhem and lets you play catchup as best you can. Once you catch on, it's a great read, but it takes awhile to get there.

I remember getting through HoC and thinking, "Okay, yeah, I'm following everything really well, the characters are clicking into place, can't wait for the next book!" And then MT drops you into yet another culture on yet another continent. Jeebus.

I've suggested to somebody else that, if you can't get through GotM, leave it, read book 2, 3 and 4, then go back to GotM. It's a lot better that way.

--A

It's a slog. The next few books are much better.

I expected it to be a slog - prior warning, so I enjoyed it much more than I thought. MT has been the toughest read so far for me (but I must say I enjoyed it much more as it went on).

yeah on my most recent reread i skipped MT. but this reread i found House of Chains to be chocked FULL of info. its truly a midway point in the series with a lot of meta info on the elder gods and the war brewing.

Spoiler

want to see paran with the host

.


i'm with Av and Fist caam...if GotM is boggin you down, go to Deadhouse Gates. you'll prolly want to go right back to GotM after that!!

It bogged me down in the beginning but then I pick it up and it catches me again. Strange.