Kevin's Watch

Maybe I'm forgetting something from ROTE, but Stave mentions how the na-Mhoram's grim felt when describing being in a fall. Stave has no knowledge of the grim.

Cail wrote:True, but he hadn't experienced it, and it was odd that he'd reference it when describing the fall.

Sort of like comparing his pain when the Masters kicked his butt to the whipping that Bannor gave Korik. He had no personal knowledge of it.

amanibhavam wrote: The Haruchai have a racial memory due to their telepathy, so they basically know all relevant things that have ever happened to their kindred.

lfex wrote:

amanibhavam wrote: The Haruchai have a racial memory due to their telepathy, so they basically know all relevant things that have ever happened to their kindred.

So why ever they needed "old tellers" in previous Chronicles?

Wayfriend wrote:The "flaw" in the doom provides that the called sandgorgon must come, kill you, and return.

It does NOT provide the sandgorgon's ability to hear you when you call from anywhere. That's a natural ability of a sandgorgon. Just as the Doom does not give the sandgorgons the ability to cross the whole world in a few minutes ... that, too, is a natural ability of the sandgorgons.

So in WGW, the Doom exists, but Nom is no longer compelled by it's flaw, he "slipped it's bonds", heh. But when TC called him, he heard, because he's a sandgorgon, nothing to do with the flaw in the Doom. He came because he respected TC, nothing to do with the Doom. And he came fast, because he's a sandgorgon, nothing to do with the Doom.

Ditto in FR. The fact that the Doom no longer exists is evidence that the Doom did not provide the ability to hear the call.

Why do I believe that sandgorgons can naturally hear you call them from the far side of the world? For one, the Ranyhyn also can (they can also hear you ahead in time, too, but they are far away when they do).

Also -- and this is just me -- there is something suspicious about sandgorgons having names. Consider that they have no physical apparatus to communicate, nor did they have any ability to use telepathy until they consumed the Raver frags. So how could they have names? Their names, I conclude, are not ordinary names. ( This is something that I am exploring in a story I am writing ... )

Cail wrote:

lfex wrote:

amanibhavam wrote: The Haruchai have a racial memory due to their telepathy, so they basically know all relevant things that have ever happened to their kindred.

So why ever they needed "old tellers" in previous Chronicles?

Exactly. It's either a flub or a tremendous cheat.

Aleksandr wrote: -snip-
Instead the story is like the nightmarish painting "Guernica" by Picasso where you can tell something is really, really wrong but it's hard to figure out what.

Emotional Leper wrote:

Cail wrote:

lfex wrote: So why ever they needed "old tellers" in previous Chronicles?

Exactly. It's either a flub or a tremendous cheat.

Perhaps with the passage of time they have learned to strengthen their natural talent to the point where they no longer need 'old tellers.'

Or maybe there has been a change in Haruchai society to where 'old tellers' are no longer revered as they were. Perhaps a general move to value everyone's voice equally. *shrug*

Or maybe there have been no 'old tellers' in the same mode as Bannor and the others lately because, since Covenant and Linden last left the land, nothing really extraordinary has happened.

SoulBiter wrote:I just cant imagine that the Sandgorgons (prior to The One Tree) going around all day having to listen and ignore people calling their name and deciding whether to answer or not.

SoulBiter wrote:As I re-read all that had to do with Nom and the Sandgorgons it was implied (maybe only because I read it that way) that the answering to their name was a part of Sandgorgons doom.

In [u]The One Tree[/u] was wrote:"The flaw I chose is this, that any Sand-gorgon will be released if its name is spoken. It will be free while it discovers the one who spoke its name. Then it must slay the speaker and return to its Doom."

SoulBiter wrote:Also it wasnt Nom that answered it was some general Sandgorgons, that had consumed part of the ravers parts, that happened to be in the area.

Wayfriend wrote:

SoulBiter wrote:I just cant imagine that the Sandgorgons (prior to The One Tree) going around all day having to listen and ignore people calling their name and deciding whether to answer or not.

If this was science fiction, it would be a valid complaint. But it's fantasy. Do we worry that the Ranyhyn "go around all day having to listen and ignore people" whistling? It's magic ... it just works.

SoulBiter wrote:As I re-read all that had to do with Nom and the Sandgorgons it was implied (maybe only because I read it that way) that the answering to their name was a part of Sandgorgons doom.

In [u]The One Tree[/u] was wrote:"The flaw I chose is this, that any Sand-gorgon will be released if its name is spoken. It will be free while it discovers the one who spoke its name. Then it must slay the speaker and return to its Doom."

Yes, they are compelled to answer if their name is called. But there is nothing that grants them an ability to hear their name called if they otherwise could not hear it.

SoulBiter wrote:Also it wasnt Nom that answered it was some general Sandgorgons, that had consumed part of the ravers parts, that happened to be in the area.

We don't know WHO heard the call for Nom. But, since they all have been changed by fragments of Ravers, they are now beings who can communicate and make concerted efforts. It would be contrived indeed to assume that Nom could have heard the call and then was unable to ask some other sandgorgons to something in response.

Stutty wrote:

Aleksandr wrote: -snip-
Instead the story is like the nightmarish painting "Guernica" by Picasso where you can tell something is really, really wrong but it's hard to figure out what.

www.artinthepicture.com/artists/Pablo_P ... rnica.jpeg

Actually I think that would make an outstanding cover for the full boxed set if it ever comes out. Look at it; you can see Mt. Thunder, Kresh, could be a Sunbane in there, all jumbled up by Caesure. Perfect!

stutt

SoulBiter wrote:But all of this is saying get out your "I believe' pin and accept that this is what happened.

amanibhavam wrote:Revelation: the Haruchai are Amnion!!

Wayfriend wrote:

SoulBiter wrote:But all of this is saying get out your "I believe' pin and accept that this is what happened.

But .... *splutter* ... if you don't want to wear your 'I believe' pin .... ?!?!?! ... ...

SoulBiter wrote:SRD used a 'loophole' of non-explaination from the One Tree and used it to bring Sandgorgons into FR.