Pantheon - The Third Age - Game Thread

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O-gon-cho
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Post by O-gon-cho »

Devaguhya wrote:
O-gon-cho wrote: ... While I hope that cooperation and trust enables our followers to thrive on Eiran, we must take into account Treasury, Wealth, and Contentment. While a bit harsh in his demands, mayhaps Dagon has the rights of it as far as things we should consider.

My L-rd Dagon, may the Light upon your waters bless you with plenty of algae and seaweed, and may the bioluminescence of your deepest dwelling citizens never diminish...
Watch and ware brother Dagon ... I see this hatchling is laying the foundation for her own charges!!
:twisted:

I will give this much acknowledgement to a deity of my former age, Astavyastataa Kadna: he taught me to read, and reread words for hidden meanings many times. It seems you are one who may also read deeper meaning than the surface appearance of words, my L-rd.

*bows*

I assume we will watch and ware each other, my L-rd.
Devaguhya wrote:And before you comment again young one ... I may be newly arrived in Eiran; but I am older than your mind can comprehend. I am as old as Life.
And yet...in the many travels and observations I have done during the interdiction, not once did I ever run across your name. Hmmm.

Fascinating...
Dagon wrote: Many thanks, Lady O-Gon-Cho! *bows*
You are quite welcome, m'l-rd. But, heed this bit of advice I offer you once. The above from Devaguyha are words worth paying attention to. Scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. Or as the enlightened Aarklar quotes...
Aarklar wrote: "Capital as such is not evil; it is its wrong use that is evil. Capital in some form or other will always be needed."
-Mohandas K. Gandhi

"If I help you, Clarice, it will be "turns" with us too. Quid pro quo. I tell you things, you tell me things"
-Hannibal Lecter
Calais wrote:O-gon-cho,
While a bit harsh in his demands, mayhaps Dagon has the rights of it as far as things we should consider.
By this reasoning, then, I also have the right to charge a fee for any creature stepping foot on land. If they desire safe passage over land, then they must pay for it.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Dagon himself claimed that he would pay any price. By your admission, you uphold my right to charge for the use of my earth.

I have been generous to those deities who have asked for my blessing. I have given this blessing freely and without price because I believe that the earth is for all to enjoy and benefit from.

Yet, if this is the path that we are taking, so be it.

I have the monopoly on the earth, as Dagon has on the sea. However, his sea rests on my earth. The ocean floor is mine. The sand, the rock, the dirt is all mine.

Therefore, since Dagon himself claimed that he would pay any price to me, I will demand that he give me half of his earnings from sea crossing.
Precisely!

Now you are talking, my Lady.

*deep bow*
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Dagon
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Post by Dagon »

Bel, as the God of Peace, you sure have a strange way of going about things peacefully.

Fine, if you won't comply with my wishes then you won't receive my protection.
“I am you; you are ME. You are the waves; I am the ocean. Know this and be free, be divine.”
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Keev Furaha
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Post by Keev Furaha »

I can see how this would benefit me, there is pain in punishment. Perhaps I should tax for that.
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Post by Unzen »

Devaguhya wrote:
Unzen wrote:
Devaguhya wrote:If they eschew Life, that is their choice.
That is well, for there are bridges that they must cross before they can return.
Ahhhh ... brother Unzen ... there are many paths to Life when I am involved! Some that do not need bridges at all!
Brother, all, even the long lived tortoise, must cross the bridge.
Nou aru taka wa tsume wo kakusu
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O-gon-cho
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Post by O-gon-cho »

Dagon wrote:Bel, as the God of Peace, you sure have a strange way of going about things peacefully.

Fine, if you won't comply with my wishes then you won't receive my protection.
My L-rd Dagon, may I enquire what your protection entails? Would it be blessings and warding against harm as one travels across your waters? Or, like a common thug, does it imply if payment is not forthcoming, that you will purposely beset the vessels attempting to cross your waters with storms and attacks?

If the former, I expect there are those who will take the risk of the seas, and who will expect at least half of all journeys to be completed safely. However, if the latter, perhaps already the Pantheon needs to consider measures against one another for bribery and extortion..

an Carraig, are you prepared to take a divine convict within your fold?
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Post by Dagon »

Ogoncho! Are you calling me a criminal? :)

All I want is to ensure safety for those who sail or swim in my domain. Surely, if some terrible accident DID happen then you wouldn't blame me?
“I am you; you are ME. You are the waves; I am the ocean. Know this and be free, be divine.”
-Sri Sathya Sai Baba
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Arcadia
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Post by Arcadia »

Dagon wrote:
Calais, I feel a bit singled out.

If you will notice, my protection is going to everybody. I'm not making any special deals for anyone, including members of my own court.

I'm not going to give in to what is clearly an attack directed solely at me.
Attack? **eyes wide***

There was no attack. Just common sense.

O-gon-cho clearly pointed out that you had a right to charge in your domain. Since your domain - sea - rides on my back - ocean floor - and you had yourself stated that you would pay any price I made for the same request, I simply made my price known.

I think that is fair under the circumstances.

After all, it is my choice where and when I charge on my domain as it is yours. You saw fit to charge me - since I am a part of the Pantheon in whole - I am just charging you back. If I concede your ability to charge others for the use of your sea, then you should concede my right as well.

Simple.

You protect my followers, I protect yours. We both benefit.
Many waters cannot quench love, neither can floods drown it. There is no fear in love; for perfect love cast out fear.
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O-gon-cho
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Post by O-gon-cho »

Dagon wrote:Ogoncho! Are you calling me a criminal? :)

All I want is to ensure safety for those who sail or swim in my domain. Surely, if some terrible accident DID happen then you wouldn't blame me?
Hmmm...let us review, shall we?
Dagon wrote: I would also like to remind the Pantheon that the Seas of Eiran are mine. There will be nothing that occurs in or on top of the Seas that I don't know about.

The Seas are a dangerous place. Any deity's followers who travel on my waters must pay tribute. This can be either followers or wealth. It must be thrown into the ocean where I will collect it.

I assure you this is in your best interest, as any ship who sails without paying tribute might have a difficult time arriving at their destination.
*cocked eyebrow*
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Post by Dagon »

So what exactly are you protecting my followers from?
“I am you; you are ME. You are the waves; I am the ocean. Know this and be free, be divine.”
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Post by Dagon »

O-gon-cho wrote:
Dagon wrote:Ogoncho! Are you calling me a criminal? :)

All I want is to ensure safety for those who sail or swim in my domain. Surely, if some terrible accident DID happen then you wouldn't blame me?
Hmmm...let us review, shall we?
Dagon wrote: I would also like to remind the Pantheon that the Seas of Eiran are mine. There will be nothing that occurs in or on top of the Seas that I don't know about.

The Seas are a dangerous place. Any deity's followers who travel on my waters must pay tribute. This can be either followers or wealth. It must be thrown into the ocean where I will collect it.

I assure you this is in your best interest, as any ship who sails without paying tribute might have a difficult time arriving at their destination.
*cocked eyebrow*
I fail to see your point. Of course they might have a difficult time. As I said, the seas are dangerous.
“I am you; you are ME. You are the waves; I am the ocean. Know this and be free, be divine.”
-Sri Sathya Sai Baba
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O-gon-cho
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Post by O-gon-cho »

*shaking head*

Then we do not "must pay tribute" before setting sail upon or swimming in the seas, and our chances of being safe will not be affected, other than the additional protection we could volunteer to pay you for? For I read that post I quoted as an implied extortion attempt, much like that of the common thug in the more "protected" areas of our cities.

If I read it wrong, and assumed more than you meant, my sincere apologies, my L-rd...

*wicked twinkle in eyes*
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Post by Madadeva »

O-gon-cho wrote:...
If I read it wrong, and assumed more than you meant, my sincere apologies, my L-rd...

*wicked twinkle in eyes*
Now O-gon-cho!! I think Keev has the lock on wickedness!!

*hearty chuckle!*
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O-gon-cho
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Post by O-gon-cho »

Nah...

She has the lock on pain...

...dagnamit...
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Keev Furaha
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Post by Keev Furaha »

Dev, pain is not equated with wickedness. Pain can be but pain is so much more. Does the birth mother not love her child regardless of the pain the bearing and birthing begat her? Is there not pain in the death from Uncle's gifts? To the sufferer and those he leaves behind? Does Telmag not cause Calais pain when he extracts the metals from her very flesh? Pain is everywhere and yet is not wicked in itself unless you bring in an Carraig or Brid, crime and outcasting, that is pain inflicted for pain alone. And even then that is questionable. A criminal may commit his crime out of his own desperation and not forsee the pain to his victim. Brid's followers may choose their own outcasting and not feel the pain associated with the loss of social circles.
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Post by an Carraig »

O-gon-cho wrote: perhaps already the Pantheon needs to consider measures against one another for bribery and extortion..

an Carraig, are you prepared to take a divine convict within your fold?
ho there! and zephyr was all worried about me gettin followers!! Image
Dagon wrote:So what exactly are you protecting my followers from?
bad karma? :shifty:
[img]smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Animals/mini-bird.gif[/img] wrote:All ambitions are lawful except those which climb upward on the miseries or credulities of mankind.
[img]smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Animals/mini-bird.gif[/img] wrote:For all that has been said of the love that certain natures (on shore) have professed for it, for all the celebrations it has been the object of in prose and song, the sea has never been friendly to man. At most it has been the accomplice of human restlessness.
[img]smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Animals/mini-bird.gif[/img] wrote:The sea - this truth must be confessed - has no generosity. No display of manly qualities - courage, hardihood, endurance, faithfulness - has ever been known to touch its irresponsible consciousness of power.
Keev Furaha wrote:Dev, pain is not equated with wickedness. Pain can be but pain is so much more. Does the birth mother not love her child regardless of the pain the bearing and birthing begat her? Is there not pain in the death from Uncle's gifts? To the sufferer and those he leaves behind? Does Telmag not cause Calais pain when he extracts the metals from her very flesh? Pain is everywhere and yet is not wicked in itself unless you bring in an Carraig or Brid, crime and outcasting, that is pain inflicted for pain alone. And even then that is questionable. A criminal may commit his crime out of his own desperation and not forsee the pain to his victim. Brid's followers may choose their own outcasting and not feel the pain associated with the loss of social circles.
be careful, Keev, that you know of what you speak, love.
i fear you understand neither Brid nor myself. ;)


in answer to your question, Ogoncho, she of the crazy orange pantsuit,
all crime pays the rock. :twisted:
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Post by Cryak »

In regards to Dagon's proposition and Calais' response.

It's really a case of location. Dagon controls the Seas, a normally dangerous place in the best of times. It takes power and active control for him to calm the seas for specific deities. It is within reason for him to request payment.

Likewise, if I were to cross a volcano, I would barter with Calais to make passage safe. Walking across land the odds of my followers falling into a spontaneous crack are close to zero, so I doubt it's within reason for Calais to ask payment.
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Post by Arcadia »

Tawahir-matea wrote:
It's really a case of location. Dagon controls the Seas, a normally dangerous place in the best of times. It takes power and active control for him to calm the seas for specific deities. It is within reason for him to request payment.
Actually, I beg to differ with you Tawahiri. The seas are only as dangerous as you (with your storms) or I (with my tectonic activity) make them. By themselves, they are virtually calm and inert. In addition, I would be charging Dagon who by his own word said he would pay me any price, 50% of what he makes from this charge since his sea rests directly upon my earth.
Likewise, if I were to cross a volcano, I would barter with Calais to make passage safe. Walking across land the odds of my followers falling into a spontaneous crack are close to zero, so I doubt it's within reason for Calais to ask payment.
You would not need to barter with me, Tawahiri for I would let you pass safely. The only instance where I would not let you pass safely is if your passage put my interests at risk. I was not going to charge people for traveling over the earth and never said that I was. I was simply pointing out that I could, if I chose to. I was only going to charge Dagon because he was going to charge me.

My point being that if we gods start demanding payments like this, things can get out of hand. What is to stop the god of the sun from charging us for sunshine? Or the god of life from charging us for life? The goddess of prisons to charge us for freedom or the god of war charge us for peace?

It is a reckless fee Dagon seeks to charge and you did not even notice that my first response to him was one of caution that other gods may band together against him and destroy him for his greed.

This is opening up a huge can of worms that may become unmanagable for us - not to mention the All-Fatherer - and reduce Eiran to greedy money-grubbering over the very air we breathe.

I will not micromanage Eiran in this manner.
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Post by Madadeva »

Calais wrote:... and reduce Eiran to greedy money-grubbering over the very air we breathe.
As I understand ... that sounds like your mother!! *hearty laughter*

But I comprehend your sentiment. It is not my place to judge another god's motives or decisions; I support brother Dagon's right to decide for himself. For myself, I will not tax Life. Life is a gift to be shared!! [speaking of gifts, I have an uncle that likes to share his gifts as well!! *chuckles*]

Now, might my followers earn a fee if they perform some extraordinary service ... perhaps. Our followers must live and prosper. But I will leave it to them to manage their mortal affairs ... I will not become the divine taxman of Life!
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O-gon-cho
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Post by O-gon-cho »

Well said, brother.

The Pantheon has always thrived on the cooperation and generosity of others. Brother Dagon is young; perhaps he did not comprehend how the term must in his offer for protection on the seas could be seen.

I am more than happy to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Dagon, should one wish to voluntarily contract with you for additional protection to travel the seas, then you are definitely within your rights to request compensation. Do you understand the difference from the way your post initially read?
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Post by Mynaesos »

"Old age is high price to pay for wisdom, maturity and knowledge."
-Mark Twain

"Without wisdom there is no achievement of vision, and without the achievement of vision there can be no accomplishment of virtue. One lacking in virtue and vision cannot achieve concentration, and without concentration one cannot even secure one's own welfare, much less the lofty goal of providing for the welfare of others."
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