Kevin's Watch

Harrison Ford maintains that one early draft of "Jedi" had Solo dying an heroic death, and that he lobbied Lucas pretty hard to make that happen. I'd read somewhere that Lucas' biggest reason for not making Kashyyk the setting in "Jedi" was that it was much harder to cast Wookiees than Ewoks (not a whole lot of 7 foot people around). What might have been...

Just imagine! A believable ROTJ!!!!!!

Watched ROTS last night.

What did I think?

Meh.

The best of the prequels, in that it seemed less pretentious than Menace and the dull bits weren't as cripplingly tedious as Clones. Christensen's acting seems to have marginally improved, though Portman deteriorated (somehow) to balance it. My two friends and I are all in agreement that the "Noooooo!" was the most rubbish part of the film, though there was some stiff competition.

Spoiler

Palpatine's enwizening at the hands of his own lightning was a pretty lame way to make him as decrepit as the Emperor we know; any scene that featured Anakin and Padme together was stale; General Grievous, as Loremaster has said, seems pointless - just an excuse to have a droid waving lightsabres, and four at that. And it took twenty-ish years to build the first Death Star (ROTS-ANH) but hardly any time to throw together a second one (ANH-ROTJ)?

Basically, the last quarter or so of the film made it worthwhile. I enjoyed it, but I was by no means blown away.

Yeah? Well I'm going back and I can't wait. Lets see if a second viewing diminishes my enthusiasm. It might take a third or a fourth to put a dent in it.

There was something I found odd. Before seeing the film, I borrowed Darth's copy of the game. At one point near the end of the game, there's a scene (acted by McGregor and Christensen, so I assumed it was taken from the film) where Obi-Wan says (to paraphrase) "I wasn't prepared for training someone like you!" and Anakin retorts "That's your failing, not mine." I kept my eyes peeled for this in the film because I thought it was a good scene, but it wasn't there. Puzzling.

CovenantJr wrote:Watched ROTS last night.

What did I think?

Meh.

I would have to agree... It was very meh. They should have called it the Mehmpire Strikes Back.

Like you said. It was the best of the new trilogy, but that's not saying much.

Padme should have died in the first movie.

At least Jar Jar didn't have any lines. Thank God.-jay

Spoiler

Oh yeah. And like everyone else said, hearing James Earl Jones as Darth Vader yelling "Noooo!" was just the lamest thing of all time.

The more I think about the movie the more I think it is just a pretty picture without much depth. Cov Jr said it best when he mentioned that Anakin's transformation was too quick. What struck me as a massive flaw - and it the transition unbelievable - was that there was one point where Anakin wanted to save Padme, then the next he is willing to slaughter the entire Jedi council - even children. I can understand that he didn't trust the Jedi, but it was simply ridiculous that he suddenly slaughtered everyone.

And there's another thing about the prequels: they focus too much on Vader. Star Wars (4-6) was not just about Vader and his siblings. It was also a tale of saving the galaxy from a tyrranical empire. The empire was a major element. In the prequels we have no real substitute, or, the substitute were lacking: The Trade Federation was a joke - poor designs, silly concept and so weak it was difficult to imagine how they ever presented a threat.

Again, Cov Jr said it best when he suggested the prequels should be ep III extended into three episodes. We should have had the start of the empire around 3, with Vader chasing down the last remaining Jedi (as Lucas stated he did) with Obi Wan and Yoda escaping. We could have had the Emperor reaching out his iron fist to grip the universe in tyranny. Instead we get 5 dreadful minutes of a Vader with Parkinsons-like symptoms and a horrible scream.

Sorry guys, but I just don't like the prequels; I loved 4-6 before Lucas changed them. Freedom of opinion.

Loremaster wrote:The more I think about the movie the more I think it is just a pretty picture without much depth. Cov Jr said it best when he mentioned that Anakin's transformation was too quick. What struck me as a massive flaw - and it the transition unbelievable - was that there was one point where Anakin wanted to save Padme, then the next he is willing to slaughter the entire Jedi council - even children. I can understand that he didn't trust the Jedi, but it was simply ridiculous that he suddenly slaughtered everyone.

And there's another thing about the prequels: they focus too much on Vader. Star Wars (4-6) was not just about Vader and his siblings. It was also a tale of saving the galaxy from a tyrranical empire. The empire was a major element. In the prequels we have no real substitute, or, the substitute were lacking: The Trade Federation was a joke - poor designs, silly concept and so weak it was difficult to imagine how they ever presented a threat.

Again, Cov Jr said it best when he suggested the prequels should be ep III extended into three episodes. We should have had the start of the empire around 3, with Vader chasing down the last remaining Jedi (as Lucas stated he did) with Obi Wan and Yoda escaping. We could have had the Emperor reaching out his iron fist to grip the universe in tyranny. Instead we get 5 dreadful minutes of a Vader with Parkinsons-like symptoms and a horrible scream.

Sorry guys, but I just don't like the prequels; I loved 4-6 before Lucas changed them. Freedom of opinion.

Good posting, Loremaster.

"In order to save Padme, you must kill all these children."
"Ok."

Just totally unconvincing. I can buy that extreme emotion can distort perspectives and priorities to the point that Anakin is doing evil things while believing it's for the greater good - something that was hinted at in his badly-written but potential-laden "We can rule the galaxy together" speech. But that kind of process is gradual - you don't just flip from being heroic to being a misguided maniac in the time it takes to eat a fig roll. As I said, I expected to see Anakin as a Jedi in Ep I, then the initial stages of the Empire and the death of the Jedi, as Loremaster said, around Ep III. The original trilogy was spread over no more than a couple of years, but the prequels tried to cover more than a decade, and it was too much to cram in.

kevinswatch wrote: At least Jar Jar didn't have any lines. Thank God.-jay

Actually, Jar Jar says "excuse me" in ROTS.

Spoiler

Another thing: like I said before, Vader's "no" improved after hearing it twice. I think you guys might be overreacting. I mean, Anakin's "yipee" was a helluva lot more grating.

Foul, it was dumb. Lots of people have the same opinion.

It didn't fit at all. It was emotionless and stilted and...just lame!

Loremaster wrote:Foul, it was dumb. Lots of people have the same opinion.

Oh wow, you got me! Since lots of people share an opinion, it must be correct! Good one, Loremaster.

By the way: I didn't say it wasn't dumb. I would've gone with a different reaction--or at least a better "no". Lord knows there has to be one. What I did say was that it improved after a second hearing. Maybe it will for you, maybe it won't.

Another weird character behavious is with Obi Wan. Why was he so vindictive in his chase of Grievous? Why try to kill the character? I mean, we have a leader of a droid army who could provide information pertaining to the war: Yet instead of capturing him, Obi Wan goes out of his way to kill him. Very un-jedi like.

*shrugs* So Lucas could stage an action scene? An excuse to see a robot wield four lightsabers? Maybe Jedis don’t apply the same “let them live/question them” mantra to enemy droids?

Lord Foul wrote:

Loremaster wrote:Foul, it was dumb. Lots of people have the same opinion.

Oh wow, you got me! Since lots of people share an opinion, it must be correct! Good one, Loremaster.

By the way: I didn't say it wasn't dumb. I would've gone with a different reaction--or at least a better "no". Lord knows there has to be one. What I did say was that it improved after a second hearing. Maybe it will for you, maybe it won't.

Foul, settle down. I seem to recall you were condescending in your initial reply and 'attacked' Cov Jr and myself for expressing our dislike of the 'Noooo' scene. I simply stated that I have justification for not liking it, and plenty of others don't. I never claimed I was more correct - simply letting you know that people do have differing opinions.

Second, please stop reacting this way when people don't like something that you like - I've been in this position before when I said I didnt like Buffy or LOTRs. Give me a break, Foul.

Loremaster wrote:Second, please stop reacting this way when people don't like something that you like - I've been in this position before when I said I didnt like Buffy or LOTRs. Give me a break, Foul.

Scuse me? How am I reacting? Am I going nuts or something? I hope not; I'm simply expressing my opinion. The fact that it differs with yours from time to time is something you're just going to have to handle.

Condescending? Attacking? Heh. Perceive how you wish to perceive. I'm not about to get into a circular argument about something so subjective as the quality of Vader's "no".

Lord Foul wrote:*shrugs* So Lucas could stage an action scene? An excuse to see a robot wield four lightsabers? Maybe Jedis don’t apply the same “let them live/question them” mantra to enemy droids?

I stil didn't like the sequence, regardless if it was for a sequence. I think it was gratuitous. Accept my opinion foul, as I accept yours. I bought the ticket, I have every right to state how I feel about the scene. You very eager to defend the movie.

I've always acknowledge your opinion. I was merely offering another side. This is a discussion board, is it not? You wondered why Obi-Wan was why he was and I gave possible reasons. You need to lighten up, yourself.

Lord Foul wrote:

Loremaster wrote:Second, please stop reacting this way when people don't like something that you like - I've been in this position before when I said I didnt like Buffy or LOTRs. Give me a break, Foul.

Scuse me? How am I reacting? Am I going nuts or something? I hope not; I'm simply expressing my opinion. The fact that it differs with yours from time to time is something you're just going to have to handle.

Condescending? Attacking? Heh. Perceive how you wish to perceive. I'm not about to get into a circular argument about something so subjective as the quality of Vader's "no".

Foul - you said Cov Jr and I were 'overreacting' to the scene. We werent. Foul I can handle that your opinion differs, but you have given me every indication in the past that you cant accept my opinion with regards to some shows or movies.

Anyway, I' didnt come to this forum to be argued with nor treated this way - get off my back foul and let's leave this as we each have different opinions to the movie.

Loremaster wrote:Foul - you said Cov Jr and I were 'overreacting'

Okay. Bingo. How was that an "attack"? How was that condescending? I merely offered a possibility. I thought I delivered it nicely; I didn't go "oh dudes you guys are idiots the Vader scream was soooo not bad lol rofl". Hell, I said "might". That's a pretty lukewarm word choice, you know--not "you guys are freaking overreacting". I was being plaintive, suggestive.