Kevin's Watch

I felt that the caamora was a good climax considering. But I don't like the direction SRD went with his writing in terms of novels vs series. RotE has a climax, but the rest of the story is really just setup material, and while WL is setup, it's so emotionally moving...

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:There's a massive issue that aches inside me concerning the Arguleh.

Think about it:

Physically, the Arguleh are going directly up against the power of the Sunbane. This should create a tornado alley that dwarfs anything we've seen previous, all just north of Revelstone, the cold and hot battling like warrior lovers, and what does SRD do about it? He skips it. He already used storms a billion times, so he just skipped the greatest weather battle imaginable.

I've just got to this section in my rereading and I couldn't agree more.

As regards the original thread, personally, I think the First Chronicles as a set is, for me, more satisfying. The whole story links together so well and so intricately that its very clear that SRD meticulously planned it all from the outset in great detail - and it works, oh it works.

There are parts of the Second Chronicles that I love and there is some great writing at times, but I just don't find that it all holds together in the same way. There are too many things that just seem stitched together - as a story it isn't as seemless. Great set pieces but too many loose ends.

The section on the Arguleh, SRD himself wrote, was the product of "serendipity." He really had no clue which stitches to place at that point, not until he got there.

How do I know this? I used to own the LP of SRD reading a chapter from this section of WGW, the inside cover of the album contained an explanation from SRD in which he used the word "serendipity."

I cant choose.. I love them all. for me all the books were great.. my Favorite of the series was The Illearth War, so i guess that puts the other 7 on the least favorite list but with an asterisk next to them.

I'm not even going to deign to give this question validity by attempting to answer it, but I am intrigued as to why all the original postings have the same date and time at somewhere in 1970 - clearly the Watch is older and faster than I gave it credit for!

peter wrote:I'm not even going to deign to give this question validity by attempting to answer it, but I am intrigued as to why all the original postings have the same date and time at somewhere in 1970 - clearly the Watch is older and faster than I gave it credit for!

Yes, people here have apparently been discussing the Chronicles before SRD even wrote them. Now that is hardcore...

Blackhawk wrote:I cant choose.. I love them all. for me all the books were great.. my Favorite of the series was The Illearth War, so i guess that puts the other 7 on the least favorite list but with an asterisk next to them.

More or less the same with me. I still see-saw between The Illearth War and The One Tree for absolute favorite Chronicles book, but that doesn't mean I suddenly think the rest is crap.

Barnetto wrote: As regards the original thread, personally, I think the First Chronicles as a set is, for me, more satisfying. The whole story links together so well and so intricately that its very clear that SRD meticulously planned it all from the outset in great detail - and it works, oh it works.

There are parts of the Second Chronicles that I love and there is some great writing at times, but I just don't find that it all holds together in the same way. There are too many things that just seem stitched together - as a story it isn't as seemless. Great set pieces but too many loose ends.

Some of those places are surely due to the fact that he's going to finish weaving in this last series, which he intended to write even back then...though I doubt ALL of them are.
You're right, also [imho] that there was less...fluidity, I guess works...but I actually liked that aspect of it. [as I like the new...harshness, I suppose, of the language in the latest.]

On topic though...currently, I think that, except for the last 100 or so pages, I least like "The Power that Preserves"...while being in the same boat as some, really liking them all a lot.

As much as the corruption of the natural law of Earthpower was disturbing in TWL, my least favorite is TPTP

Vraith wrote: On topic though...currently, I think that, except for the last 100 or so pages, I least like "The Power that Preserves"...while being in the same boat as some, really liking them all a lot.

Actually, I was very gripped by the unrelenting bleakness of TPTP. The part with the preachers at the start was just so raw (one of my favourite parts of the whole Chronicles) and the siege of Revelstone was almost tangible in its wrongness.

I suspect the main problem with it is the shock of the loss of the beauty in the Land - and the fact that TC isn't healed - plus the unremitting bleakness. (One Unfettered being slaughtered by a Raver, and one dying to save TC...! I always wanted to see more of the Unfettered and that is what we got!) (Many seem to have difficulties with TWL for the same reason.)

But I think it's a natural extension of the first two books and you have to be plunged into that unrelenting despair (Triock as Raver, the warped Pietten and the death of Lena!) to fully appreciate the final victories of Mhoram and Covenant. Not the most comfortable of reads, but still great for me.

The One Tree would be my least favourite (so far) because, as I've indicated, I find it a little disjointed.

Both Barnetto and Vraith refer to loose ends in the 2nd Chrons and Vraith says he expects SRD wil adress some of them in the 3rd Chrons but he doubts if all will be adressed. I am intrigued by this because I never saw the 2nd Chrons as being anything other than a 'complete wrap' at its end.
I am however a notoriously un-insightful reader and much stuff always has to be rammed down my throat before I get it. So - can anyone point out a few of these loose ends to me. Appart from anything else it would no doubt increase my understanding and pleasure in reading the 3rd Chrons

peter wrote:Both Barnetto and Vraith refer to loose ends in the 2nd Chrons and Vraith says he expects SRD wil adress some of them in the 3rd Chrons but he doubts if all will be adressed. I am intrigued by this because I never saw the 2nd Chrons as being anything other than a 'complete wrap' at its end.
I am however a notoriously un-insightful reader and much stuff always has to be rammed down my throat before I get it. So - can anyone point out a few of these loose ends to me. Appart from anything else it would no doubt increase my understanding and pleasure in reading the 3rd Chrons

Actually, SRD confirms as much on his website:

"Actually, I've had the story for "The Last Chronicles" in mind for at least 25 years. When I first began to imagine "The Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant," the ideas for this final project struck me at the same time. As a result, while I was writing "The Second Chronicles" I was able to prepare the way for "The Last Chronicles" by creating all of the loose ends and back doors I would need.

When I wrote the original "Covenant" trilogy, I had no intention of pursuing either the characters or the setting further. The story seemed complete to me as it stood. But my editor at that time was Lester del Rey, and he was the King of Sequels. As soon as I finished working on The Power that Preserves, he began to push for more "Covenant." Ignoring my protests, he tried to prod me by sending me ideas for a second trilogy. Well, these ideas were all bad (I thought they were inherently bad, but they may simply have been bad because they weren't mine). And they got worse as Lester pushed harder. Finally he succeeded at sending me an idea so bad that before I could stop myself I thought, "No, that's terrible, what I really ought to do is--" And there, almost involuntarily, I conceived the stories for both "The Second Chronicles" and "The Last Chronicles."

As I imagined it at the time, "The Second Chronicles" was a logical extension of the first "Covenant" trilogy. In the same way, "The Last Chronicles" is a logical extension of the second. "

I can actually tell you exactly when I began suspecting/hoping for a third chronicles: Nom eats the Raver, and I thought "Oh, God...somethings gonna happen because of that, and it could be really really bad." Then nothing did happen...it felt too important to just vanish.

And sorry, peter...I can't think of a way to point out loose ends without ruining the way they're tied back in [plus, even those that have already re-entered the story aren't done yet].

There's a thread somewhere, probably the FR forum, where some Watchers tried to list the loose ends... but of course if you haven't read Runes or FR yet, beware of spoilers!

Vraith wrote: Nom eats the Raver, and I thought "Oh, God...somethings gonna happen because of that, and it could be really really bad." Then nothing did happen...it felt too important to just vanish.

Now you see - I like that; the idea that Nom could be such a powerful being, such an elemental force, that he could just sqeeze a raver out of existance - like it was never even there, like light entering a black hole.

Vraith wrote:And sorry, peter...I can't think of a way to point out loose ends without ruining the way they're tied back in [plus, even those that have already re-entered the story aren't done yet].

The unexplained nature of the Croyels on Kasreyn/arguleh seems to be a good loose end?

My least favorite book was the One Tree, though, frankly, I'm not a huge fan of anything after TPTP.

The first chronicles are sublime. The second are creative. I don't know how I feel about the third, but they're a fun ride.

Barnetto wrote:

Vraith wrote:And sorry, peter...I can't think of a way to point out loose ends without ruining the way they're tied back in [plus, even those that have already re-entered the story aren't done yet].

The unexplained nature of the Croyels on Kasreyn/arguleh seems to be a good loose end?

The Croyel were succubus like entitys that bargained for their existance by feeding of the soul of their 'victim' and in return provided enhanced power and longevity. The end result was never good for the willing participant in that unholy alliance in much the same way that Dorian Gray's trade off ultimately did him no good.

Sorry Barnetto - I see no loose end in that.

Vain wrote: I have just worked my way through The Wounded Land and it's been the most FRUSTRATING read so far

I remember thinking that the first time I read The Wounded Land, I hated it. But I have read the books all again like almost a decade or more later on and I really enjoyed TWL this time round. Covenant really carves up in this book, and the venom isn't 'puissant' (that's for the last chronicle readers) enough for him to fear it. All the stuff where he battles the Clave and then again The Lurker in Sarangrave - oh and the Camora for the Unhomed too.

I would say Lord Fouls Bane perhaps, but it gets away with it because it's the y'know.... first book.

I have found that each time I have re-read the 1st and 2nd Chronicles my enjoyment has never waned, and I do not recall consciously 'skipping' through any one particular book (or even chapter) - a sign I take to show that I don't have a 'favourite' or a 'least favourite' amongst them.

To read the 6 books back-to-back (for the umpteenth time) is a journey I am happy to undertake whenever the trials of modern-day living exert excessive pressure on my often-shattered nerves. Its my personal form of escapism.

As an aside, I must have read this set of books at least 10 times over the years - is this normal or below-par for the devotees of TC?

I loved TWL.. because of how painful it was. It was so poignant to see the effects of corruption.. and TC was the only one who remembered what the Land used to be like.

I remember just being astounded at how much was lost. The whole idea of how to hurt someone who has lost everything by giving them back something broken.

"I've been away for a long time. Do you have any hurtloam?"

Hurtloam? Linden's expression asked.

"Hurtloam?" queried Nassic. "What is hurtloam?"

What is - ? Distress lurched across Covenant's features. What - ? Shouts flared in him like screams. Hurtloam! Earthpower! Life! "Hurtloam," he rasped savagely. "The mud that heals." His grasp shook Nassic's frail bones.

"Forgive me, Ur-Lord. Be not angry. I - "

"It was here! In this valley!" Lena had healed him with it.

Nassic found a moment of dignity. "I know nothing of hurtloam. I am an old man, and have never heard the name spoken."

"Damnation!" Covenant spat. "Next you're going to tell me you've never heard of Earthpower!"

The old man sagged. "Earthpower?" he breathed. "Earthpower?"

Covenant's hands ground his giddy dismay into Nassic's thin arms. But Linden was at his side, trying to loosen his grip. "Covenant! He's telling the truth!"

Covenant jerked his gaze like a whip to her face.

Her lips were tight with strain, but she did not let herself flinch. "He doesn't know what you're talking about."

She silenced him. He believed her; she could hear the truth in Nassic's voice, just as she could see the lack of infection in his cuts. No hurtloam? He bled inwardly. Forgotten? Lost? Images of desecration poured through him. Have mercy. The Land without hurtloam. Without Earthpower? The weight of Nassic's revelation was too much for him. He sank to the floor like an invalid.