The Latest Potentially-Explosive Racially-Charged Murder

[SoulBiter]

The murder of a man for no good reason is a worse crime than rioting.

Unless that riot ends with the deaths of 7 more people that would be alive if the riot had never happened.

The fact that his murderers will not be held accountable is a worse crime yet.

First you don't know that. The cop that had his knee on George's neck is being brought up on Murder charges and the rest are being brought up on manslaughter charges. Its pretty damning evidence.

Wayfriends rant would be here

I am going to ignore the fact that you just called basically everyone here but you (why you are excluded I dont know) a racist and an apologist for white supremacy. You could not be more wrong. You don't know me in RL. If you did you would apologize immediately for your racist slander against me. Im sure others would feel the same.

Focusing on the rioting without putting it into context is just another way of promoting outrage against black people.

Nope. There are two that I see. One is the senseless killing of George Floyd by those that are sworn to defend and protect. He begged and pleaded for the pressure to be released from his neck so he could breath. It was heartwrenching to watch.

The second is seeing people destroy their own community. Its not like they are hurting anyone but themselves when they do that. Some of those are black owned businesses, they employ the very people they supposedly are doing this for.

Yeah. My signature stays. It's necessary.

No one pays your signature any more attention than they do mine. But its a free country. Go ahead.

Now my take on this situation. How can this continue to happen? How do those sworn to protect, lose their way and kill someone. To callously listen to someone plead and beg to be allowed to take a breath. To listen to him plead to the bystanders to not allow them to kill him. I am truly saddened because I have no answers. But it has to stop and we all should be lifting our voices and saying ENOUGH!!

Let me tell you a little known fact. I have black people in my family. I don't put that out there because it shouldn't matter. But here is what does matter. Mu cousin Tyler is a good kid with a bright future ahead of him. But he has to be given these kinds of instructions from his mom on a regular basis. This is what she shared with me just today. This is today for this but this is every day. Because he is a black male. If he isnt this kind of careful he becomes another sad statistic and we lose a loved member of our family.

1. He works at a store and had to go to another store to pick up shipping bags for his store to use. I asked him if the second store was expecting him. When he said no, I became concerned and told him to wait until they opened and go to the front door with his employee badge rather than the back (employee entrance). Why? Because I was concerned that someone would call the police thinking he was up to no good.

2. He has agreed to let a friend’s dogs out daily while they are on vacation. The friend lives in a subdivision. I had to call the friend yesterday and ask that he inform his neighbors that he is going to have a black male come once daily to check on his dogs. Why? Because I was concerned that someone would assume that he was breaking in.

3. He rode with a friend who sold a golf bag online to deliver it to the purchaser. I told him to meet in a parking lot with cameras and stay in the car unless his friend ran into trouble. Why? Because he has to me mindful that for some people, him being black will make them think something shady is going on.

[SoulBiter]

The riots only prove that a strong police force is necessary. These don't make violent clashes with the police less likely, they make them more likely.

Agreed

According to the Minneapolis Star Tribune, "kneeling on a suspect's neck is allowed under the department's use-of-force policy for officers who have received training in how to compress a neck without applying direct pressure to the airway. It is considered a 'non-deadly force option,' according to the department's policy handbook."

WOW ... I am shocked. I reached out to a friend who retired from the police force and he said he was taught to never compress the neck area. Its just too dangerous to the person being detained.

Cuff,roll them to the side sit them up. Put them in the vehicle. If need be place a knee between the shoulders to gain compliance. Never take it personal. Once you have control there is no more need for force and that includes knees to the neck, back or laying across the detainee.

Seems we need to wait for the autopsy to see if the guy actually died from strangulation or a heart attack (or other). If he didn't die from the knee-to-neck move, then this was totally legal and the protests are (once again) totally irrational, unjustified reaction. If he DID die from the knee-to-neck, then it was still an irrational, slightly less unjustified reaction. Let the law handle it, don't become a criminal yourself.

I agree, let it works it way through the system. But I have to point out that had there not been video, there would be no investigation. So just saying let the law handle it is not enough. There has to be change in their procedures. Maybe he had some underlying condition. I dont know but it doesnt matter. They callously didnt care because he told them I cant breath, I cant breath, please Im dying. All he had to do was release the pressure from his neck.

When someone says they cant breathe, just because they are speaking does not mean they are breathing correctly. George knew this was the situation as his body was telling him that. 8 minutes with a knee on his neck.... We can also drown hours after swimming from inhaling water the wrong way. Police forces need to understand anatomy to some degree and realize how quickly it goes sideways then south.

[Skyweir]

Yeah its never an authorised means of disabling a suspect ... certainly not in 21C ffs and not among any credible law enforcement agency

The dude was already handcuffed ... there was zero need to pin his head to the ground .... No one does that, ever. He was not a threat, handcuffed, he simply needed escorting to the police vehicle. The end.

If that had been done, as is required, the suspects life would not have been forfeit.

Outrageously wrong.

And clearly the police department know that .. explaining his immediate sacking. No LEA will defend that.

Maybe there are some fucked backwater pretend police department somewhere the light dont shine that think kneeling on a perps neck is a valid go to ... but its the most crazy fucked up piece of BS Ive ever read (the tid bit from the Minnesota Star Tribune).

As to the more recent rants

We all know murder is worse than looting

The officer in question was charged with murder and man slaughter... as is percent appropriate.

As to justice being dealt ... the justice system itself shows that its not always delivering.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.cnn ... index.html

The protesters once they cross the line from peaceful to violent protest ie torching buildings and committing property damage ... they at that point arent doing themselves or their cause imv any favours via arsen.

And lets be clear, Looters arent protesters ... they are looters, they are people responding to this environment in opportunistic way. Thieving is not a protest. Its a no justification crime. These people are capitalising on a tragedy ... as criminals are wont to do.

[Avatar]

I agree, let it works it way through the system. But I have to point out that had there not been video, there would be no investigation. So just saying let the law handle it is not enough. There has to be change in their procedures.

Agreed.

Somewhere in here, (or maybe the militarisation thread), I posted a link to a piece by a US policeman and police trainer, where he talks about a big part of the problem being that the police there are being trained to be afraid of the public and that fear being what drives these extreme responses. It's a very good article, and straight from the horses mouth as it were.

As for the rest, the rioting etc. is comprehensible, but not justifiable. We can see that it does the cause more harm than good, and what we should be hearing from politicians is appeals for calm while due process happens.

As for the rest, stick to the arguments please guys, not assumptions about each others intentions etc. thanks.

--A

[Skyweir]

I must have skimmed over SBS comments cuz he is absolutely dead right ... the law is not enough .. there has to be changes made ... I guess this is what is driving protesters.

Id be interested to read that article ... Id Flickr yo understand how US LEAs have arrived at the place they have.

But it might require systemic overhaul the issues clearly are not limited to the police.

Why are so many prosecutions dropped, why are offenders acquitted, why is it that DPPs decide not to progress charges.

[Avatar]

Well, I found the post I thought I was referencing, but the article isn't the one I thought it was, although it does talk about the deficiencies of police training and the effect of fear on policemen.

www.activeresponsetraining.net/the-phil ... op-readers

Will hunt around and see if I can find the one I meant. But this one is still worth reading, even though it's long. (If for nothing else, to show that there are good cops too.)

--A

[peter]

It will be a miracle if all out war does not break out in Washington tonight after Trump's inflammatory posting about vicious dogs and abominable weapons today: that and actively trying to inflame the situation by a carefully ambiguous statement that a MAGA rally could be expected tonight where last night there were demonstrations. Compare the balanced and emotional exhortation by rapper Killer Mike in which he begged for people not to "burn their own homes" in retaliation for the horrible murder of their neighbour, but rather to reflect, prepare and mobilize to fight for justice through the proper channels. What a contrast - the people of the US would be better served had they voted him in as President instead of Trump!

[sgt.null]

They need to stop calling these protests
And the thugs engaged in such as protesters.
Use the proper terms riots, rioters, looting, looters.
Thugs, criminals. The riots need to be suppressed.

[Skyweir]

There are several groups of players here ... the protesters are protesting the appalling and pointless death of George Floyd ... and the system that enabled his senseless death.

Totally understandable.

A lot of protest organisers are making it clear that they want non violent protest. However most protests get emotive and this one is no exception ... plenty of grounds for emotional responses.

There are agitators within and without and they are trying to wind protesters up. But Ive seen protest organisers speak against them.

There are looters and vandals ... these are opportunistic predatory individuals who seek to capitalise from tragedy.

These are not one homogenous group.

Looters and vandals should be held accountable for theft and property damage.

Ive seen US police interviewed who claim to understand the protests ... but who are of course concerned about the level of aggression levelled against them. LA CPoliceChief Moore was interviewed and clearly and calmly conveyed the message that they are listening and agree that the system needs fixing but that these attacks are not capable of fixing the problems that they also acknowledge exist.

This was LA police though. Not sure if all departments are the same, my guess would be they are not.

Things are rarely black and white ... most times nuancing is needed to appreciate the subtle mechanisms at play.

[Gaius Octavius]

The riots are a false-flag. Pallets of bricks (no construction zone) are being deposited in the early morning at major cities, in convenient locations for rioters to use them.

When this shit spreads to the south, some Antifa are going to get a bullet between their eyes as soon as they try looting the wrong shop.

[sgt.null]

Houston isn't allowing looting,
Rioting and arson. Other cities
Should follow.

[Gaius Octavius]

Who needs insurance policies?

[Kizza]

Terrible to see the news this past few days.
Nothing resembles a protest from the footage.
Understand that people are angry, but the whole reason the majority wanted to protest has been lost to the thugs and looters running riot.

[Skyweir]

Yup and the protesters are marching peacefully.

Agitators, whether they be antifa or other anarchist groups ... they are behaving as opportunistic as looters and vandals. They are inciting and enacting violence where the protesters Ive seen are not having a bar if it.

[Skyweir]

Its sad as there is a valid reason to protest. I hope the powers that be are paying attention.

[TheFallen]

In the face of what's going on in the US, it's at least encouraging to see that the vast majority of us here on the Tank - regardless of political leanings - are more than capable of seeing the obvious distinction between:-

a) entirely justifiable protest at what by now surely has to be seen as an all too often ingrained and systemic issue

and

b) completely unjustifiable rioting and looting which - as everyone with even a scintilla of sanity here has stated - is counter-productive to the ultimate degree, instead being merely opportunistic and self-serving criminality.

Of course there'll always be one or two insanely frothing white guilt-ridden outliers who'll deny the above distinction...

A criminal is a criminal. Period. it's the act committed that defines that status. It's irrelevant whether he/she's a police officer or a civilian. It's irrelevant whether he/she's white, black or from any other ethnic background.

And given the all too frequent examples of discrimination by law enforcement against blacks, protest is clearly absolutely necessary. However, rioting and looting every bit as clearly absolutely aren't.

I've always said that applying positive discrimination in any respect is subtly pernicious. However, for anyone to look to apply a form of positive discrimination to be an apologist for or justifier of starkly criminal acts such as looting and rioting... forget subtly pernicious - that's just swivel-eyed insanity.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

The protesters in Minneapolis were legitimate because that is where the crime occurred--and it was a crime, because the officer in question is now facing murder charges. The "spontaneous protests" in other cities? Those are just bullshit and are being driven by groups who want race riots for a variety of reasons--they want chaos/anarchy, they want to oppose Trump, etc.

Most of the subsequent riots are being stirred up by Antifa. Besides, I can prove that the protests are all bullshit. As always with this topic, begin with a factual source such as killbypolice.net. So far in 2020, at least 73 black people have been killed by police (130 cases are not identified by race but if the underlying ratios remain accurate that would bring the number up to 96)...and not a single one of those cases resulted in any significant protest or riot whatsoever--apparently those black lives don't matter. The only reason people are protesting over the death of Mr. Floyd is because it got caught on camera.

Many of the areas being hit by riots are, unfortunately, predominantly black neighborhoods and some black-owned businesses have been vandalized, looted, and/or burned out. Brilliant--destroy the foundation of your own community, making it more difficult for that community to continue building itself in the correct direction. The only way the black community helps bring more of its citizens out of generational poverty is to promote black-owned businesses, either by shopping there as customers or by having established business owners pool thier resources and help out newer/younger businesses get started. Far too many of them are relying on the government to try and get them out of poverty, a plan which has a 50-year track record of failure.

Incidentally, in that same time 143 white people have been killed by police (possibly 189 if the uncategorized deaths have the same proportion as the categorized ones). The claim "black people are being targeted by police" is factually and demonstrably true.

Also incidentally, isn't it amazing how corona drops out of the headlines almost overnight? All it took was some race riots.

[Wosbald]

+JMJ+

[...]

... So far in 2020, at least 73 black people have been killed by police (130 cases are not identified by race but if the underlying ratios remain accurate that would bring the number up to 96)...and not a single one of those cases resulted in any significant protest or riot whatsoever--apparently those black lives don't matter. The only reason people are protesting over the death of Mr. Floyd is because it got caught on camera.

[...]

Ain't that kinda like sayin' that the only murders that are prosecuted are the ones for which they have evidence?

[Avatar]

Incidentally, in that same time 143 white people have been killed by police...

Obviously white people don't care if the police kill other white people...

--A

[Gaius Octavius]

https://streamable.com/u2jzoo

Cops in Minneapolis are patrolling neighborhoods and SHOOTING people standing on their porches.

"LIGHT 'EM UP!"