Alright, I’ve done a bit of research, and this time I’ve moved beyond Wikipedia.
My research and quotes come straight from Orthodoxyinamerica.org, the link Rusmeister gave us pages back in the thread.
But before we get to those quotes, let’s look at some quotes from The Wounded Land.
Sunder:
“Therefore in his wrath the Master turned his face from the Land. He sent the Sunbane upon us, as chastisement for treachery, so that we would remember our mortality, and become worthy again to serve his purpose.” [Remind anyone of the Flood?]
Part of [Covenant]. . . raged at the brutality which had taugh people like Sunder to think of their own lives as punishment for a crime they could not have committed. . . [Remind anyone of Original Sin?]
P
rotests thronged in Covenant. He knew from experience that this conception of the Land was false and cruel. [Remind anyone of Malik’s posts?]
Linden: “A Master like that isn’t worth believing in.” [See above, concerning Malik’s posts.]
Other similarities between Christianity and the Clave: The emphasis on blood sacrifice. First (in the Old Testiment) animals, then (NT) Christ. Only through bloodletting is salvation procured. Like the Clave: rituals which involve bloody sacrifice purchase life.
Okay, now let’s turn to the quotes from Orthodoxyinamerica.org. These quotes back up my criticism that Christianity—even the Orthodox kind which Rusmeister thinks is exempt—is an inauthentic religion because it denies the self, maligns our physical being, and maligns our physical world. We are doomed and damned creatures in need of salvation, born into this fundamentally flawed place as fundamentally flawed creatures, who, only through debasing ourselves and wallowing in our sinful nature, can we ever give up our will in order to receive forgiveness—not only for our own “sins” but also for Original Sin which we did not commit.
Only when it is humbled will our spirit become aware of the gulf which separates man from God and will know that God is all that within ourselves is nothing worthy of the Lord or pleasing to Him, nothing that is our own except our sins and that the fullness of spiritual life consists in renunciation of self in giving oneself entirely to God and to others.
That is a doctrine which hates man as he exists in his natural state. There is nothing within us worthy of the Lord or pleasing to Him. Yep, the central doctrine of this religion is: you’re a pile of crap.
Only by sacrificing ourselves will we find ourselves in the fullness of life lived for God and for others. And to find ourselves in God and in others, we must lose our own selves. Our spirit, renewed in God, knows that human life belongs to Him and always and in all things is dependent upon Him, and that we must be in steadfast contact with Him, begging His help and living in the hope that the gracious Lord in His mercy will not abandon us in our helplessness.
Yep, we are grovelers who must give up ourselves and live in a state of constant helplessness and begging for mercy.
The righteous men of the Old Testament were aware of their insignificance before God. As Abraham said of himself, I... am but dust and ashes (Gen. 18:27). David, both king and prophet, cried out, I am a worm, and no man (Ps. 22:6); I am poor and needy (Ps. 86:1). Moses said to the Lord, I am slow of speech and of tongue (Ex. 4:10); and the Prophet Isaiah said to himself, I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips (Is. 6:5).
Leper! Outcast! Unclean! That’s what we are to Christians.
The saints of the New Testament Church, the nearer they drew to God, the stronger they were aware of their smallness and unworthiness before God, and were filled with truly profound humility. Some of them declared as they died that they had not even begun their salvation, while others declared that there was no place for them even in Hell, while yet others declared that even the earth would not accept their sinful bodies.
According to St. John Chrysostom, humility is the foundation of all virtue, for even if one distinguishes himself by fasting, prayer, alms, chastity, of any other virtue, without humility all of these would be destroyed and would perish. Thus there is no salvation without humility. This virtue was regarded highly in the Old Testament, for as the Psalmist says, A broken and contrite heart, O God, Thou wilt not despise (Ps. 51:17). Seeing the results which humility brings, he was moved to say, When I was brought low, He saved me (Ps. 116:6).
Not only does Lord Foul want to break Covenant, but
"O God" wants you broken and contrite.
In the New Testament, the Lord Himself gave us the greatest example of humility (Matt. 11:39; John 13:14-16), for His entire life teaches us humility. The Mother of God says of herself, For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden (Luke 1:48). The Apostle Paul said of himself, I am the foremost among sinners (1 Tim. 1:15). The Publican of the Gospel saw nothing within himself except sinfulness, and simply hoped in God's mercy.
The ways in which one attains humility are different. Sometimes it is through sickness, sorrow and misfortunes. Sometimes it is through being persecuted by others or oppressed by disease. As St. John Chrysostom says, True humility comes when we turn from our sins to God.
So the “foundation of all virtue” is achieved by wonderful things like sickness, sorrow, and misfortune. And this is *good* thing, because it beats you down enough so that you become a proper groveler before the Lord (Foul).
He who has attained deep humility considers himself the unworthiest among men and attributes all his accomplishments to God.
Feeling like a piece of crap yet? No? Then you’re not low enough to be a Christian. Keep trying. Back on your face, grovelers.
Therefore, the poor in spirit, those who are humble of heart, will inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mourning, as the expression of the spirit's repentance for its sins, is of spiritual value, and must be treasured so as not to be wasted on earthly vanities. The mourning of the spirit, however, is not always accompanied by physical tears, for deep sorrow can be expressed in sighs, constriction of the heart, profound silence, inner concentration and withdrawal. Yet, as St. Ephraim the Syrian notes, these tears are like precious pearls, for by God's gift the soul is enlightened by tears, reflecting the heavenly like a mirror.
Yep, being filled with grief over your own lowly, crappy, sinful self is a
virtue, something to be
treasured. Seeing the life-denying inauthenticity yet? Keep reading.
Great is the strength of pure and heartfelt tears that rise from the depths of the heart, for these tears wash away all internal and external filth and quench the flame of all irritability and anger. These tears are especially saving when they are constant and, as St. John of the Ladder teaches us, he who is truly concerned for his salvation will count each day when he has not wept for his sins as wasted, in spite of any good deeds that may have been accomplished.
A day not spent wracked by self-loathing, self-deprivation, and self-hatred is a bad day.
We are constantly sinning, both when we are active and when we give ourselves over to idle dreams, and these sins must be washed away with tears of repentance. These tears are a means of washing and purifying our soul, and a sacrifice offered up to God by our contrite and broken spirit. If our tears arise from fear of God for our sinfulness, they will intercede for us with God, as St. Ephraim tells us.
We must be a broken sacrifice in order to be “worthy” of saving. Remember, your grief is a good thing, because you are so crappy—constantly sinning—that this is the only appropriate response to your existence.
Meekness is directly linked with heartfelt repentance and mourning for our sins and he who considers himself worthy of all sorrows and troubles will be filled with the spirit of meekness and humility.
Meekness is basically agreeing that you’re a piece of crap, worthy of your own suffering.
The Psalmist especially praises meekness, placing it on a level with truth and righteousness (Ps. 45:4), and the Prophet Isaiah speaks of God's particularly merciful attitude to man who is meek: This is the man to whom I will look, he that is humble and contrite in spirit, and trembles at My word, says the Lord (Is. 66:2). St. Peter sees a meek and quiet spirit as one of the greatest treasures of the human heart, which in God's sight is very precious (1 Pet. 3:4). Therefore he urges the followers of Christ to be ready to answer with meekness and fear (1 Pet. 3:15) those who ask the reason for their hope. St. James asks us to receive with meekness the Word of God (James 1:21), so that it will find the most direct way to the hearts of his listeners.
God wants you to be cowering in fear, mournful of your own worthlessness, and groveling for your life.
Take My yoke upon you, and learn from Me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls (Matt. 11:29), for it is out of this virtue that all the other virtues grow, including love itself. Through meekness and humility man overcomes his natural self and pride, and spiritually develops towards self-denial in the Name of God and out of love of Him and one's neighbor.
Yes, self-denial and spiritual slavery. “Taking up his yoke.” You’re no better than a farm animal, to be led by a yoke and toil in God’s fields.
The pure in heart are not tempted by the seductions of this world. As St. John of the Ladder says, truly blessed is he who has attained complete dispassion for all carnal things, for appearance and beauty; great is he who is dispassionate; he who has triumphed over the body, has triumphed over nature, and there is no doubt that he who has triumphed over nature stands higher than nature, and such a man differs little from the-Angels; purity of heart brings us closer to God and, as far as possible, makes us like unto Him.
And here is where we get into denying the world, and maligning our physical existence. This world (like the Land under the Sunbane) is something evil, something to deny, something to “overcome,” and even its beauty is something we should reject. Our bodies are supposed to be “triumphed over,” because we all know our bodies are bad, and nature itself is something we’re supposed to stand above, rather than be part of.
Blessed are you when men shall revile you and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for My sake.
These words are the continuation and conclusion and at the same time the crown of all the Beatitudes that have preceded. In the eighth Beatitude, oppression and persecution were linked with Christ's righteousness, and in the ninth, with Christ Himself as the bearer and expression of this righteousness. The Savior declares in no uncertain terms that men shall persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for My sake. In this lies the greatest reward for His followers, who are called to joy and happiness, when the hour of suffering is upon them.
It is important to understand that tribulations are necessary because there is no other way for us to be cleansed of our sins except that pointed out by the Savior and followed by Him. In suffering we become aware of our own weakness and helplessness, and, humbled in prayer and contrition before God, we receive divine help and joy in the Lord.
When you’re reviled and persecuted, you know you’re on the right path! After all, you deserve it. That horrible suffering you’re feeling is the tingle that lets you know it's working!
And now we come to Baptism and Original Sin.
First place among the Sacraments of the Orthodox Church is occupied by Holy Baptism, by which a man,
who has come to believe in Christ, by being immersed three times in water in the Name of the Holy Trinity (Father, Son and Holy Spirit), is cleansed through Divine Grace of all sins (Original Sin and personal sins) and is reborn into a new holy, and spiritual life.
So Orthodox Christianity believes in Original Sin after all, despite Rusmeister’s obfuscations on this very issue. We inherit the guilt of a crime we didn’t commit. Again, let’s look at that criticism of the Clave:
Part of [Covenant]. . . raged at the brutality which had taught people like Sunder to think of their own lives as punishment for a crime they could not have committed. .
The Savior commanded His disciples to teach the Faith and to baptize all nations (Matt. 28:19), for as descendants of Adam all are in need of rebirth. This rebirth is accomplished only through Baptism, which is why all men seeking salvation, regardless of sex, nationality, or any other condition, must be baptized. Thus the Orthodox Church holds Baptism to be as necessary for infants as for adults, since they, too, are subject to Original Sin and without Baptism cannot be absolved of this sin.
Seems like my interpretations weren't so far off, after all. If you've seen one life-denying, self-denying, body-denying, world-denying, "humans are guilty from birth," "we all deserve our suffering," "we were made to be grovelers and slaves" religion--you've seen them all.
why do people who don't believe try so hard to go out of their way to convince those who do that they are mistaken in their beliefs? If you don't believe, why do you even care what we think? 
, nor to test the faith of those within the faith.