Orlion wrote:You're having too much fun with this

But as a rebuttal, how is that 'claim' any different from a claim made by a tyrannical ruler, oppressive communism, and just plain oppressive governments?
I know, my inner Authoritarian is showing
Again, it has to do with the length of time that the 'Traditions' have on their side. They have stood the test of time. And personally, this is one of the things that I have learned from rus. I was coming around to it anyway, but reading the material that he posted clarified it for me. The major concerns of humanity: birth, fertility and death have not gone away with all the 'progress' that has been made. (You have been posting on the thread about abortion in the Tank, so you know how settled that issue is. (Click
here for that thread.))
Because they are larger than the individual, these issues do not go away. They are crucial to society and to humanity as a species. If I want to get mystical about it, they are about our relationship with the universe. To think that I, as a fairly ordinary (if a member of an 'elite' forum

Ask Prebe!) person, could in one short lifetime gather together and absorb all the necessary knowledge to be able to answer the questions that these issues raise smacks (from the perspective of a 'Tradition') of arrogance and hubris.
Fist and Faith wrote:Truth? Well, Tradition - any tradition, I think - considers itself to be the holder of Truth. Which it thinks needs to be preserved. But now we're in the arena of opinion. I think X is true, and Y is false. Others think the reverse. I want to start or continue traditions that push X, and do away with traditions that push Y. Others want to do the reverse.
Welcome Fist! If I can start getting under your skin my work here will be done
I think I understand what you mean and it's definitely true that it's a matter of opinion or accident of birth or geography. But, what I said in a previous post holds; 'Traditions' have a certain regard for each other that they do not have for young or newly started 'traditions'. The non-religious 'tradition' that many people here on the Watch are part of is 'The Enlightenment' which is a mere 400 years old. (I'm a member of this tradition myself, BTW.)
Vraith wrote:It's when it becomes Tradition, claims Truth, that it goes wrong...in many ways and cases, it becomes anti-survival.
This is interesting and it ties in with shamanism because in societies where there was a shaman his/her job was to mediate between the 'other' world and the world the society existed in. I think it may be when knowledge of the 'other' world is used for material gain that power becomes an issue. While shamans may not have ruled their societies they did wield a lot of influence. 'Traditions' such as Catholicism and Islam have done untold damage when they have exerted excessive material power.
u.