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Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:53 am
by lorin
Morning wrote:
deer of the dawn wrote:Eff, I am guessing the furthest poster away from the Southern US is Shaun das Schaf, who I believe resides Down Under. Which is even farther away than I am in West Africa.
Nice to know someone's on the same timezone with me :biggrin:
Ok, here is a perfect example of what I am talking about. I LOVE Lisbon, I LOVE anything Portuguese. I actually look for people that are from Portugal on this site. I want to talk to them about the years I lived in the Albarve. I want to talk to them about Portuguese seafood. So here I say WOW!! A Portuguese citizen (or visitor) that I can talk to! Yay! But..... then it starts. Is he or she really from Portugal? Is this an alt or does he or she really exist? Do I want to start up a dialogue with someone who actually doesn't live in Portugal and really knows nothing about my favorite place? Then I look at the postings and say well, she/he is new, maybe I'll wait and see if he/she is real.

Please understand, Morning, this is not about you, I am using you as an example. And by the way, welcome to the Watch. Not everyone is as big a nut job as me.. :wink:

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:15 pm
by babybottomfeeder
Guys, I have a confession to make.

I love my 2006 Nissan Pathfinder :)

For its Performance

The amazing Offroad maneuverability

Telecommuting Operation of available Hill Descent Control

Pounding Solid construction

I can't imagine a nicer or more American design to take on rocky hills or just hang out next to a fishing hole. Sometimes I park right next to the water and cast my net out.

I thought it would be funny to put this in the coming clean :)!

But also Im dead serious about loving the:

270-hp, 4.0-liter V-6

Five-speed automatic

Seven-passenger seating

Related to full-size Armada

RWD or 4WD. These specs speak for themselves.

Plus it's a Nissan! I know it's a Japanese vehicle but those Japanese vehicle makers know their way around an American style Japanese vehicle.

I have a sunroof on mine and even during the winter i open it up and let the cool air blow on me.

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:18 pm
by aliantha
Effy, did LF approach you about taking "Lord Foul" as an alt, or did you approach him?

Because if he approached you, then I have a bad feeling that he was setting you up. :(

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:39 pm
by Shaun das Schaf
deer of the dawn wrote:Eff, I am guessing the furthest poster away from the Southern US is Shaun das Schaf, who I believe resides Down Under. Which is even farther away than I am in West Africa.
Well actually, StevieG is Tasmanian so he is Southerer than me! And then there's Cambo from New Zealand, that's even Southererer. (Speaking of which, where is he lately?)
Anyway, we are all 'spiritually' close and that's what matters :D

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:53 pm
by I'm Murrin
Image

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:55 pm
by Fist and Faith
Lorin, we've met, and got along nicely. I'd be happy to meet up again in the future. I think you're a very nice person. I'd txt with you a lot more if we'd read more of the same books. :lol: I say these things so that you don't think I'm just saying what I'm going to say because I don't like you or anything.

The problem isn't ALTs. It's you.

Morning doesn't have to be a secret alt to be lying. It could be the only account this person has. Still, he could be a she. She could be living in Anchorage. She could love Portugal, and wants to pretend to be from there. No rules about ALTs would prevent such a thing. Nothing could prevent that.

The key is to understand that we must approach the e-world in a different way than we approach the real world. It's so new that some might not have considered it. The trick is to not care who or what the person actually is, but on how we are when interacting with the persona presented to us. How do I feel? What do I learn about myself? Like SRD said in the forward to Gilden-Fire: "In reality as in dreams, what matters is the answer we find in our hearts to the test of despite." (I hope that's exact. Heh) It doesn't matter if it's real our not. Learning that someone I've enjoyed interacting with isn't who they claimed to be doesn't say anything whatsoever about me. It only says something about the other person. I'm not harmed by it.

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:16 pm
by lorin
Fist and Faith wrote: The problem isn't ALTs. It's you.
Apparently so. I wish all and all the alts well. I am done with this subject and am moving on.

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:46 pm
by Iolanthe
lorin wrote:Ok, here is a perfect example of what I am talking about. I LOVE Lisbon, I LOVE anything Portuguese. I actually look for people that are from Portugal on this site. I want to talk to them about the years I lived in the Albarve. I want to talk to them about Portuguese seafood. So here I say WOW!! A Portuguese citizen (or visitor) that I can talk to! Yay! But..... then it starts. Is he or she really from Portugal? Is this an alt or does he or she really exist? Do I want to start up a dialogue with someone who actually doesn't live in Portugal and really knows nothing about my favorite place? Then I look at the postings and say well, she/he is new, maybe I'll wait and see if he/she is real.

Please understand, Morning, this is not about you, I am using you as an example. And by the way, welcome to the Watch. Not everyone is as big a nut job as me.. :wink:
Lorin, my daughter in law is from Portugal, from Palmela which is south? of Lisbon. I've been to Lisbon airport, but didn't see any more of the city. This was the first and only time I've been abroad, and flown (not counting the short flight to Dublin once). Her parents are from a small island off Africa (I can't remember which one). Not much help to you though as I don't think she's even heard of SD! At least I've been there too. :D

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:55 pm
by aliantha
I admit that I don't get the attraction of having multiple alts -- or even one alt. I like to think it's because I'm happy enough, with a psyche that's well-integrated enough, that I don't feel the need to pretend to be somebody else.

But I also don't get why my twentysomething kids still like to dress up as anime characters. Or why people feel the need to get tattoos. So it's more likely that I'm just a fuddy-duddy. :lol:

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:03 pm
by Iolanthe
aliantha wrote:I admit that I don't get the attraction of having multiple alts -- or even one alt. I like to think it's because I'm happy enough, with a psyche that's well-integrated enough, that I don't feel the need to pretend to be somebody else.

But I also don't get why my twentysomething kids still like to dress up as anime characters. Or why people feel the need to get tattoos. So it's more likely that I'm just a fuddy-duddy. :lol:
Join the club! :biggrin:

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:17 pm
by sgt.null
trolling is trolling.

if you think of the board as an extended family, this sort of "alting" does raise issues.

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:56 pm
by Lefdmae Deemalr Effaeldm
deer of the dawn wrote:...
If the original Lord Foul wished to make the name available then I wish, Effy, you had honored his intentions and left it for some newbie;
...
Have you seen this? I linked it here already, and also thought the name of that thread is pretty explanatory kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=22536
he told me I could take his name
And I understand well not just changing the name to leave that one for grabs and leaving. If I decide not to return, or to leave that identity, or if I just see I won't be able to make up my mind, I'll give it to someone I find capable of keeping it well or passing it well.
deer of the dawn wrote:...
imagine their delight at finding one of the original names up for grabs. It would be like going to TheOneRing.Net and getting Sauron as your handle. :P
...
Imagination is hardly something I can complain on the lack of, I more ofter find myself in trouble because of the unusually large amount and strange quality of it. Almost half the Watchers with 0 or 1 post count, daily presence below a hundred, not talking about posting even, which usually doesn't happen with most of those present. The probabilities aren't too hard to see.
deer of the dawn wrote:...
While you were clear that you were not the original Lord Foul,
...
Well, thanks for recognizing that at least.
deer of the dawn wrote:...
I still miss D***d and didn't find it amusing, to be honest. I dislike the alt thing because I have a hard enough time getting to know people via their internet personae. My personal reaction surprises me because I would have thought it would be something fun, but now I find it disheartening and alienating.
...
I find strange why people still cling to that, though it's always been hard for me to gauge other people's feelings.
deer of the dawn wrote:...
Sorry to be a buzzkill. Maybe it's just because I have a bad headache today. :(
Well, sorry to be even worse in a way, but you received company :( Is the Golden Star balm present in a local drugstore, or perhaps its ingredients? I find it helpful, though not enjoying the side effects too much. It's basically just a combination of most vicious oils and the like, the list is easily found online, and sticking to it may be not much important - it all basically means applying something so horrid to the aching head that the headache momentarily seems not the worst thing to have.
I'm Murrin wrote:If it'd been clear firstly that you had LF's permission, and secondly who it was that was doing it (though I think that's the less important one), then I don't think any of this would have been an issue. As it is, though, you deliberately withheld that information, so what people saw was an unknown person, obviously familiar with the original Lord Foul but not actually him, using the name to post a large number of scraping-the-barrel-style new topics. Declaring it a tribute still looks shady when you don't let on who you are or that you'd gotten permission.
I thought it was quite obvious at least that LF left the name for someone to take, why else change the name after leaving? And my reason for not saying it was his idea I already addressed and I think from your post you've seen that. aliantha's post here shows exactly that point of view I hoped to avoid if possible, by letting people see for themselves the thing that seemed clear to me. If anything, perhaps I had to get myself an account named Bertie Wooster for that attempt.

As for not knowing who - had I intended to seriously hide, I know the system used to trace people by mods, I know it pretty well, I've made a forum on phpbb3, and that much is far not required to know it's easy to hide from and how. I exactly did let on who I was to the mods for them to know it wasn't some stranger, and I've told lorin straightly, because I know her attitude to such things, intended to tell the others interested to know and not wishing to guess myself. Still wondering how it happened you decided to post it without even simply writing me a PM, I thought the mods held such things in secret, and warnings came first even when things absolutely looked like trolling and nothing else.
lorin wrote:...
Ok, here is a perfect example of what I am talking about. I LOVE Lisbon, I LOVE anything Portuguese. I actually look for people that are from Portugal on this site. I want to talk to them about the years I lived in the Albarve. I want to talk to them about Portuguese seafood. So here I say WOW!! A Portuguese citizen (or visitor) that I can talk to! Yay! But..... then it starts. Is he or she really from Portugal? Is this an alt or does he or she really exist? Do I want to start up a dialogue with someone who actually doesn't live in Portugal and really knows nothing about my favorite place?
...
I wonder if anyone could actually think I was from Ridjeck Thome) And sometimes visiting a place in thoughts works better that going there actually. I've seen situations like when one person admires some place from the books about it, museum video tours and the like, and another reacts like "been there, nothing special, small beaches, disgusting hotel rooms".
lorin wrote:...
Please understand, Morning, this is not about you, I am using you as an example. And by the way, welcome to the Watch. Not everyone is as big a nut job as me.. :wink:
Yeah, there are bigger ones Image And, lorin, Morning is hardly new, see the registration date.
babybottomfeeder wrote:Guys, I have a confession to make.

I love my 2006 Nissan Pathfinder
...
Glad to hear you're in a good mood and not dwelling on the past unpleasant topics)
aliantha wrote:Effy, did LF approach you about taking "Lord Foul" as an alt, or did you approach him?

Because if he approached you, then I have a bad feeling that he was setting you up. :(
Possible thoughts of this kind were actually one of the reasons I was so reluctant to talk about the beginning of this story. I'm very grateful to him, and I don't want him blamed in any way.
Fist and Faith wrote:...
Like SRD said in the forward to Gilden-Fire: "In reality as in dreams, what matters is the answer we find in our hearts to the test out despite." (I hope that's exact. Heh)
...
Thank you. And exact, if I'm not mistaken, is the same, just with "the test of despite".
lorin wrote:...
Apparently so. I wish all and all the alts well. I am done with this subject and am moving on.
Thank you.
aliantha wrote:I admit that I don't get the attraction of having multiple alts -- or even one alt. I like to think it's because I'm happy enough, with a psyche that's well-integrated enough, that I don't feel the need to pretend to be somebody else.

But I also don't get why my twentysomething kids still like to dress up as anime characters. Or why people feel the need to get tattoos. So it's more likely that I'm just a fuddy-duddy. :lol:
Thank you, I could hardly expect more)
Iolanthe wrote:...
Join the club! :biggrin:
Glad to hear you feel like that as well)
sgt.null wrote:trolling is trolling.

if you think of the board as an extended family, this sort of "alting" does raise issues.
And what about not trolling?

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:34 am
by Fist and Faith
ARGH!!! Another "correction" by my android tab!!! :lol: I'll fix it now.

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:35 am
by Fist and Faith
lorin wrote:I wish all and all the alts well.
That's an excellent sentence! 8)

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:03 am
by Obi-Wan Nihilo
Everything on the internet is a lie until proven otherwise.

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:59 am
by Icarus Unfallen
Don Exnihilote wrote:Everything on the internet is a lie until proven otherwise.
...including the quoted post.

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:20 am
by aliantha
I've been told the cake is a lie. ;)

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:56 am
by I'm Murrin
Effaeldm wrote:As for not knowing who - had I intended to seriously hide, I know the system used to trace people by mods, I know it pretty well, I've made a forum on phpbb3, and that much is far not required to know it's easy to hide from and how. I exactly did let on who I was to the mods for them to know it wasn't some stranger, and I've told lorin straightly, because I know her attitude to such things, intended to tell the others interested to know and not wishing to guess myself. Still wondering how it happened you decided to post it without even simply writing me a PM, I thought the mods held such things in secret, and warnings came first even when things absolutely looked like trolling and nothing else.
Firstly, I want to make it clear this isn't a big deal to me, and I'm just trying to make clear why I disagree about how you did it. The simple fact is, I think there's a massive distinction between being open about what you're doing, and not doing everything you could have done to hide. I don't see "hasn't hidden their IP address" and think "this is how they wanted to let us know". It would be a stupid assumption for a mod to make in most situations - and an entirely unintuitive one.

As for how this happened to get out... You say you intended to let others know... but you didn't actually do anything to that effect. You didn't post the explanation until after it came out. What happened was that some people were genuinely confused about what you were doing, and some even mistook you for the actual Foul, and that was letting it go too far.

I hope you realise that I don't have any problem with you personally, and I hope we can all let this go and move on soon.

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:21 am
by Avatar
aliantha wrote:I like to think it's because I'm happy enough, with a psyche that's well-integrated enough, that I don't feel the need to pretend to be somebody else.
Sheesh, I have enough trouble being myself, let alone being anybody else. :lol:

--A

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:45 am
by Morning
No, I meant Deer :D

edit: that was re: timezones.