The Mahdoubt

[ur-bane]

Thanks for the compliments, burgs66. I am not at all convinced that the Mahdoubt is Lady Alif. In fact that probobility ranks down there with Berek's Queen. I just saw some interesting parallels. The fact is, you are right. We are focusing on only a few of the clues of the Mahdoubt. All of the hints need to be taken into consideration.

The key, I think, is that it is a "child". Who else but Lena? She was a child when Covenant raped her, and even though Donaldson is an admitted efficient writer who creates only what he needs, Covenant's rape of her *had* to have impacted her negatively. Although it's entirely possible - anything is possible - it's difficult for me to believe that she took her rape in stride, that she was simply proud that the person who took her was Berek reborn (as she believed). She must have experienced moments of anger, and she is the only gifted suru-pa-maerl that we have direct knowledge of.

Lena is, as is anyone, a possibility. But I have a hard time with that. I don;t disagree that her rape was traumatic, and that her anger stayed with her. I felt that there was closure on that issue between Covenant and Lena in TIW. I could be mistaken, but I thought she forgave him before she died during Pietten's attack. But maybe my mistake is confusing forgiveness with closure.

Also, I don't agre that Earthpower serves. The people of the Land serve Earthpower.

Yes, the people serve the Earthpower. But I also feel it serves them at the same time. The evidence is overwhelming. Throughout the Chronicles it has served the needs of the Land. The Earthpower is a sense has offered itself to the service of the people who wield it and use it. It enables itself to be served through service of its own.

But that does not contradict anything that we know of the Mahdoubt. She can still be a being of Earthpower and serve her own passions.

I see you have done some digging of your own. Very good finds in the Runes text!

More distinct than the walls of Revelstone?

This really speaks of her Earthpowerfulness, IMHO. To be more distinct than Revelstone is to be full of the Earth's life and power.

Without question, the Mahdoubt is the most difficult character to pin down. Heck, she could be Lord Foul. He tricked his way into Revelstone before, and "still shadows" sound similar to his "penumbral" state at the end of TPTP. I don't mean to postulate that such is the case -- I'm merely pointing out that of all the clues we've been given, perhaps we've yet to be given enough. Although SRD usually gives us what we need.

I agree completely. There is a deliberate ambiguity about the Mahdoubt. And even with the information we do have, it may indeed not be enough.

[ur-bane]

I just had the most peculiar thought.
SRD planted the seeds of the Last Chronicles while writing the First and Second.

Loose ends.
One HUGE loose end just occured to me...and it follows along the lines of a child or childhood......"First childhood" to be exact.

There are three children to whom this can pertain.

What ever happened to Osondrea's daughters????

During TIW they were given shelter by the Unfettered at Glimmermere.......and, we don't know where tey eventually wound up... perhaps they learned more than we know....Like Prothall, they simply "left" the story. Prothall left Revelstone to live out his days in his home in the Northron Climbs, perhaps out of the reach of the Sunbane, so it is possible that others survived to give ancestry to those that live in Revelstone today......

[dlbpharmd]

You mean Loerya's daughters. It seems a stretch to me.

[burgs]

The problem with the Foul theory is that Linden, with her percipience, felt comforted by the Mahdoubt - wanted to protect her, and be protected by her. Yeah, Foul fooled Kevin, but that was before the Old Lords knew anything of Despite.

[I'm Murrin]

The problem with trying to work out the Mahdoubt is that, apart from the shadows clinging to her, the things Marthiir saw, and the way she has more of a presence in Linden's health-sense than anyone else, she could just as easily be a normal, kind old lady, from what we've seen of her. Certainly the things she says and the way she talks can easily be explained in this way.

[Jerico]

One thing we've never seen is a female Huruchai? Maybe she is a combination of all the broken hearted ones left behind? Kind of like the Vow the Bloodguard took with the old Lords, she embodies all of that hurt.

[burgs]

But the Haruchai have acknowledged that they don't know who she is. She just "showed up", so to speak.

[dlbpharmd]

I've considered the female Haruchai theory before, but wouldn't a female Haruchai be very obvious? We don't have alot of information about female Haruchais, but it seems to me that they would not be dramatically different from their male counterparts (ie, flat speech, dispassionate features, etc.)

[Sheriff Lytton]

I can't see anything yet that's shot down the idea of her being Kastenessen's lover. Mahrtiir exclaiming "you serve" could equally be interpreted as an expression of surprise at someone of obvious power adopting the post of a servant, just as it could be construed as meaning he recognises her and is amazed at her serving something "Good". Either way, I don't see that precludes her from being Kastenessen's lover.

And as for the unlikelihood of Kastenessen's lover being a tragic figure, well she's been in a relationship with an immortal who is capable of pretty much anything, suffered the trauma of losing him and given birth to/created the merewives (now they're not good news) using power and knowlegde gained from old Kassybabes. Thanks to this Esmer's been brought into being (check out what he says to Stave before he attacks him - "because of you there will be..." - Esmer is not good news and he knows it). That's pretty tragic.

After all that lunacy a simple life of service at Revelstone could seem quite attractive.

And consider that the Demondim (unleashed by Esmer) are about to assault the Haruchai in Revelstone. That's a rather useful place for her to be if she wants to try and do something positive for a change.

As regards her facial appearance, her quite simply being old could account for her features looking like they've been "sculpted by an unruly child during a tantrum". And the description Donaldson gives of her eyes (one blazing orange, one deep blue) could also be interpreted as a reference to the human part of her and the Elohim knowlege/power she has gained both being present within her.

Regarding her just turning up at Revelstone - caesures can do that. Or, if she's in possession of Elohim lore then maybe she foresaw the Demondim attacking Revelstone and the Haruchai as a result of Esmer summoning them. Maybe Esmer foresaw they'd attack them too.

And her comments about farming and working with sheep, cattle, etc,... well, before the Elohim lothario arrived on the scene she was an ordinary woman. Surely that's consistent with her story.

I think it's early days to go discounting this possiblity just yet. Ho ho ho.

[Thaale]

The obvious solution is that the Mahdoubt is Karen. Maybe so obvious that everyone misses it? If anyone should show up in this series and give TC a helping hand, it's Karen. Actions have consequences; and that applies not only to Lena's rape.

OTOH, there's the bare possibility that the Mahdoubt is just the Mahdoubt, though she's undoubtedly "mysterious." Amok was just Amok; that is, he had something going on, but it wasn't that he was Berek or the ancient King or anything anyone could have guessed before it was revealed. I think the Mahdoubt will turn out to be something like that: There's definitely something significant about her, but it's not something any of us can possibly figure out until it's revealed.

[burgs]

Sometimes the obvious is the obvious, and the simplest answer is often the correct one.

She has a violet-blue eye and a fiery orange eye. Forget the sculpting, forget everything else. Those eyes speak volumes. The violet-blue eyes speak of the sea (merewives) and the orange eye speaks of Kassy. Or the skurj. Oh darn, and I thought I had just made it simple.

If SRD is reading this, he's probably laughing his a$$ off.

[Thaale]

For the Mrs. Kastenessen crowd:

Any particular reason why Mrs. K would decide that scrubbing floors at Revelstone would be a good career move? I know that she was feeling unfulfilled as a "mere" wife and mother, but seriously, why would she decide to migrate to The Land and wait on the Haruchai?

The same question applies to Alif, the Queen, Atiarin, etc.

[dlbpharmd]

The obvious solution is that the Mahdoubt is Karen.

Now I'm really confused - who the heck is Karen?

[burgs]

For the Mrs. Kastenessen crowd:

Any particular reason why Mrs. K would decide that scrubbing floors at Revelstone would be a good career move? I know that she was feeling unfulfilled as a "mere" wife and mother, but seriously, why would she decide to migrate to The Land and wait on the Haruchai?

The same question applies to Alif, the Queen, Atiarin, etc.

With the exception of the eyes, I'm entirely with you (as evidenced in other posts). Those are the only sticklers.

[ur-bane]

For the Mrs. Kastenessen crowd:

Any particular reason why Mrs. K would decide that scrubbing floors at Revelstone would be a good career move? I know that she was feeling unfulfilled as a "mere" wife and mother, but seriously, why would she decide to migrate to The Land and wait on the Haruchai?

The same question applies to Alif, the Queen, Atiarin, etc.

The why is simple. That answer is given to us in the text. The Mahdoubt is speaking to Linden just before she sees Covenant and Jeremiah in front of the Demondim horde:

"The lady is thirsty,"..."She neglects her own needs. Is the Mahdoubt pleased? She is not. Oh, assuredly.
Yet it is her burden and her gift to supply care where it is found lacking."

So, regardless of who the Mahdoubt actually is, she has to serve. She is burdened with the requirement. How that pertains to her origins we can only guess.
The fact that she also considers it a gift can be interpreted as the reason why "the days when aught vexed her are long past."

But this also hints at something else. It hints at an Elohim Appointed.
They also "supply care when it is found lacking." (The Colossus, the new Staff, Kastenessen capping the fire.)
Now the care of the Land is found lacking, so the Elohim Appointed one of their own to merge with someone to care for the Land as they could. That someone is the Mahdoubt. Who she origianlly was is a mystery.
This also speaks of SRD's theme of union throughout the Chronicles.

[Insanity Falls]

I like the Mahdoubt, because she is an unexpected noveltly with a very human side, and she is colourful, and is delighfully described.

She unexpectedly invade the progress of the big deals of the plot, and the well-trodden paths of Revelstone, and the people and issues we are familiar with, and are chewing over, and inserts a bit of basic human concern and kindness, that is well given, and touching.

And it is of these events that real life is made ...

Any kindness HAS an importance, it doesn't matter whether a kindness is given by a person who just brushes our lives for an instant and we never see again. That kindness is HISTORY! It CHANGES us and enriches us and can change everything.

Contrast that with the fact that this kindness is given by a "commoner" apparently detached from the great concerns and events that are transpiring around her - and the text communicates the ESSENTIAL NECESSITY AND POWER of kindness ALL THE MORE.

I expect this to be her raison d'etre. Kindness is after all a massive theme in the books. And therefore every reason to describe this encounter with such care.

Also, it is in giving care and detail to the little things in an epic story such as this, which really brings the whole thing alive.

I have read SRD talking about the Mahdoubt, and yet I got no matches on the GI, so I can't say where it was. Somewhere in the SI perhaps?

As far as I recall SRD said something like this : unlike most of the characters the Mahdoubt doesn't "do" anything, she just exists!
###EDIT - I recalled this badly - and I've posted exactly what SRD actually said, and the link to that interview, in a post below #####

She was named in part after the Shadout Mapes in Dune, a character that has huge contextual and emotional and critical impact, yet is actually a "walk on, walk off" bit part.

That is why I suspect the Mahdoubt to be a "bit part". And I suspect all these ruminations of "who she is" are barking in the wrong forest. And yet ...

There is something about her is there not?

There has to be something of importance behind her than we have yet been shown. What is it?

We shall see her again I think!

[burgs]

That's not a bad idea. After all, the Elohim (as I recall) tend to flicker in and out, and have ethereal qualities. If the Master's are intent on subduing Earthpower, what better than to send an Elohim to guard against it?

Still - what's with the eyes?

Maybe Kassy's wife is the Appointed.

[I'm Murrin]

Ilike the way you think, Insanity Falls. As SRD says (IIRC): "She is exactly what she appears to be."

[ur-bane]

Still - what's with the eyes?

The eyes are indeed intriguing. I have an idea about the eyes, as well, that differs from my previous interpretation.

ALthough eyes are certainly a window to the soul, that doesn't necessarily mean that the soul contains what once was. It could also be a prediction of things to come.
Rather than hinting at Kassy with the orange eye, and the merewives with the blue, it is possible that they are simply implying fire and water. And that in turn speaks of the potential danger to and possible healing of the Earth.
Fire and water.
Desecration and nourishment.

For although the Elohim know the Earth is threatened, and perhaps have Appointed one of their own to aid in the Earth's preservation, they cannot be sure of the outcome. Hence the orange eye--fire--portraying the potential for destruction written in their choices, and the blue eye--water-- indicative of the life and nourishment they hope to bring to the Land and the Earth.

[ur-bane]

I have read SRD talking about the Mahdoubt, and yet I got no matches on the GI, so I can't say where it was. Somewhere in the SI perhaps?

As far as I recall SRD said something like this : unlike most of the characters the Mahdoubt doesn't "do" anything, she just exists!

If that indeed is true, I would certainly like to find the source.
Speaking only of the Covenant books, we have yet to be introduced to a character that just exists.

Every character in the Chronicles has been introduced, and throughout the read the reason for their introduction has become clear.

I see no reason to expect otherwise from the Mahdoubt. SRD's dealings with her alone suggest a profound importance of her character, not a mere existence.

I concede that the Mahdoubt is a mystery; at this point completely open to the interpretation of the reader. But to say that she merely exists does not at all fit with what SRD has introduced throughout the Chronicles.