Kevin's Watch

think of why foul couldn't touch the staff of law...

now think what would happen if he drank earthpower...

theres your answer.

I'm not sure about that.

* It was theorised by the Lords that the staff would not work well/correctly for Foul, not that he couldn't use it.
* Foul actually resided near the heart of earthpower because it was the one thing that would heal even him
* Even earthpower can be corrupted
* Foul cannot be destroyed. He is of the same 'species' as the creator. Considering the time periods he works with, risking a set back by stuffing up the power of command may be worth it (from Foul's point of view)

All speculation of course...

1. it wouldn't work properly.. nor would the earthblood
2. foul was in fouls creshe and then in mount thunder... the only place i'm aware of earthblood is under skyweir, which is miles and miles away from both (unless i'm understanding you wrong)
3. well yeah...
4. why bother when he's already got a plan that will almost certainly work? i'd rather stick with a plan thats got very little liklihood of change than one that could be blown wide open by the wrong use of earthblood...

re Foul being near Earthpower, I did not mean he lived near it during the chrons. When defeated his lessened essence resided near the heart of Earthpower while it helped him 'heal'. Bad news for the land.

NB this is not near the Earthblood under Skyweir which was one concentrated manifestation of Earthpower near the surface of the world.

Your right though, Foul may well have found it impossible to get to the Earthblood. Particularly with the protections Kevin placed around it.

Playing devil's advocate ...as to your assertion that it wouldn't work properly...why not? The staff of law was a focus and particular pathway of Earthpower created to support the positive aspects of the power by a human. Earthblood has no such strictures. And if it worked to any degree, it may still aid Foul. Of course, you would hope the Law of Unintended Consequences (TM) or whatever its called would apply.

As to his plan that would most certainly work...which is more likely to help him succeed - wild magic or power of command. I see great risk with both

Finally, I've just thought that Foul may not have known of it. He may not have known all of Kevin's Lore.

as kevin's right hand man, i imagine foul would ahve known about the earthblood... unless of course kevin kept it totally to himself. which we know is untrue, because the bloodguard know of it.

i think foul just dismissed it as unnessisary... it says soemwhere in the 2nd crons that if foul hadn't been so hell bent on the illearth stone then covenant wouldn't have beaten him... perhaps the same applies for the earthblood. foul went after the illearth stone but deemed the earthblood too much of a waste of time to presue.

its possible..

Mistweave wrote:Playing devil's advocate ...as to your assertion that it wouldn't work properly...why not? The staff of law was a focus and particular pathway of Earthpower created to support the positive aspects of the power by a human. Earthblood has no such strictures.

This kind of thing has been debated a bit. It's possible that the Earthpower told Berek about its (the Earthpower's) nature; its state of being - and that it only worked in specific ways by its very nature. Maybe the Staff of Law was not a "particular pathway", but the only pathway the Earthpower's nature allowed. Just as our nature allows us to communicate, but does not allow unaided flight. If that's the case, then the EarthBlood would have been subject to the same Law.

Forestal wrote:as kevin's right hand man, i imagine foul would ahve known about the earthblood... unless of course kevin kept it totally to himself. which we know is untrue, because the bloodguard know of it.

Here's what Morin said:

"High Lord, we do not know the name of the Seventh Ward's power. We have heard many names - some false, others dead. But one name we have heard only uttered in whispers by High Lord Kevin and his Council.

"That name is the Power of Command."

Since the Bloodguard didn't even know that Power of Command applied to the 7th Ward, I doubt they knew about EarthBlood at all. However, I think it's darned likely that the rest of the Lords knew - including the Lord that Kevin had set " on his right side in the Council."

LOL indeed

really excellent points raised Mistweave!! I really enjoyed reading your posts here.

I am curious to know more of your arguement re: the earthblood .. I think you have raised a valid point re: earthblood. Are you saying that earthpower as opposed to earthblood .. may be channelled <ie:Staff of Law> and earthblood has no channel .. nor any positive manifestation?

what power does earthblood represent anyway?

just earthpower? or more?

is it the opposing element and in part the paradox to earthpower .. that can be channelled and harnassed through law ..

because it is in essence of chaos?

Fist and Faith wrote:Since the Bloodguard didn't even know that Power of Command applied to the 7th Ward, I doubt they knew about EarthBlood at all. However, I think it's darned likely that the rest of the Lords knew - including the Lord that Kevin had set " on his right side in the Council."

this is true... but the bloodguard knew its name, and as such they knew of it... also, to steal your quote:

Morin wrote:But one name we have heard only uttered in whispers by High Lord Kevin and his Council.

"by kevin and his council", so theother lords were well aware of it.
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I also have to say, like skyweir, I enjoy ur posts mistweave, got a great new insight here.

i always believed that the earthblood was earthpower incarnate, like the elohim, it just took a different form. although, the earthblood has control over all things of law... so that does tent to suggest that is more powerful than earthpower... as it has the ability to break laws...

i dont know... to me, the earthblood is starting to be more akin to wild magic than earthblood... perhaps it has espects of both? after all, the arch of time's keystone is wild magic... and the arch is the land, in essense, does this not suggest that the blood of the land would also take on similar traits to wild magic? but perhaps less so, less powerful, so as to not be a threat to the arch.

my 2 cents....

Command Banner to drink it. He has to protect the lords in his service to them. He would make an emotionless, level-headed decision.

Command all of the unfettered to fight Lord Foul’s army with the Warward.

Command 10 billion tons of popcorn to appear in Doom’s Retreat (it might not do anything, but at least it would be funny).

Command the seven wards, minus the staff of law & Amok, to teleport onto the Lord’s table in the Close in Revelstone.

Command the one forest to return to its original splendor before the axe of men.

Command everyone to rescind the oath of peace.

Command the lower half of the land to drop below sea level. Nothing’s good there anyway. (only problem with this is that it might require another ritual of desecration, which is how I believe Landsdrop was formed in the first place).

Command all of the Land’s life to be made into a single living entity (no, it couldn’t move…).

Command all of the Land’s life to teleport to the center plains (there, fixed).

Command Caerroil Wildwood to submit to the Lord’s demands of him in defense of the land (but then the land might lose that old power, that singular knowledge).

Command a land bridge from Seareach to the Giant’s home (no, that might make a volcano in the middle of the ocean so big that it floods the land under 150 feet of water).

Command a lomillialor ladder from Earth’s Blood up 100 feet beyond the top of Melenkurion Skyweir (no, that would use up all the highwood and an opening might not even be in the rock..).

u have some very strange ideas there luof

now i'm not meaning to make you look stupid or anything, and those were probably meant as a joke, but here's a little examination of them...
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"Command Banner to drink it. He has to protect the lords in his service to them. He would make an emotionless, level-headed decision."

ok i cant argue with that one.
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"Command all of the unfettered to fight Lord Foul’s army with the Warward."

although good in idea, the unfettered were probably very poor at fighting... after all, i dont recall any of the unfettered being mentioned to have studied the sword...
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"Command 10 billion tons of popcorn to appear in Doom’s Retreat"

now THAT i would like to see! lol...

of course the pop corn has to come from somewhere, perhaps this would take all the corn from the lord's supplies, and corn is a fairly stape food i'm lead to believe...
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"Command the seven wards, minus the staff of law & Amok, to teleport onto the Lord’s table in the Close in Revelstone."

we dont actually know what these wards entailed... take the 7th ward, the earthblood... that was a very large amoung of liquid... think what would happen if say the 6th ward was, for example, rivenrock.. by some magic you could call power from it, or something along those lines...

imagine the lords sitting there and getting rivenrock land on them in revelstone... funny though but not really advisable..
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"Command everyone to rescind the oath of peace."

firstly, Elena would NEVER do that...

secondly, no lords knew the OoP was holding them back at this point

thirdly, this happened with the clave, and look how that turned out.
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"Command the lower half of the land to drop below sea level. Nothing’s good there anyway."

so coercri isn't good? giants woods isn't good? i rest my case...

(as for your RoD theory... its far more likely that the upper land is a seperate tectonic plate, and it rose up higher than the lower land, therefore making lands drop)
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"Command all of the Land’s life to be made into a single living entity"

umm... why?
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"Command all of the Land’s life to teleport to the center plains"

*suddenly thousands and thousands of ur-viles appear in the center plains*
great genius...
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"Command Caerroil Wildwood to submit to the Lord’s demands of him in defense of the land"

now this one is at least sensible, however, wildwood couldn't leave garotting deep for an period of time, so his help would really be useless unless foul's army was moved to either garotting deep or the colossus.
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"Command a land bridge from Seareach to the Giant’s home"

nice idea... i like that one...
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"Command a lomillialor ladder from Earth’s Blood up 100 feet beyond the top of Melenkurion Skyweir"

well at least they could take the ladder apart and use it against foul...

Forestal wrote: u have some very strange ideas there luof

now i'm not meaning to make you look stupid or anything, and those were probably meant as a joke, but here's a little examination of them...

Actually some were jokes and actually you don’t seem like a very nice person.
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Forestal wrote: "Command all of the unfettered to fight Lord Foul’s army with the Warward."

although good in idea, the unfettered were probably very poor at fighting... after all, i dont recall any of the unfettered being mentioned to have studied the sword...

I meant that they would fight with the Warward as the Lords do. Some would have very little to offer, but others would have great effect.
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Forestal wrote: "Command everyone to rescind the oath of peace."

firstly, Elena would NEVER do that...

secondly, no lords knew the OoP was holding them back at this point

thirdly, this happened with the clave, and look how that turned out.

Why not? Elena’s focusing of her eyes was just like Morham’s eyes. They both knew the secret. She knew it first. In a very real way, her command was like Kevin’s RoD. She was eager to do it.

Anyway, it could cause unforeseen consequences, such as the power of command then forcing them to an oath of war against the land. I think everyone agrees that this kind of power is easily underthought & over its intended purposes.
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Forestal wrote: "Command the lower half of the land to drop below sea level. Nothing’s good there anyway."

so coercri isn't good? giants woods isn't good? i rest my case...

(as for your RoD theory... its far more likely that the upper land is a seperate tectonic plate, and it rose up higher than the lower land, therefore making lands drop)

The giants were dead by this time. But I forgot that she didn’t know.
As for my RoD theory, it makes perfect sense. Kevin & Foul performed the RoD at Mount Thunder. The land to the east falls, to the west rises, on the pivot of the only structure which would still end up straddling that part of the land. It makes absolute perfect sense. The resulting earthquakes would rend the land from end to end, from guard’s cap to where ruinwash empties into the sea. Just contemplate the kind of earthquake necessary to drop a tectonic plate? 12.5? 15.8? Probably the only reason Mount Thunder survives at all is because that’s where they were when they bonded in Kevin’s despair. It’s probably how the illearth stone was formed in the first place, the stillborn of that ill act. The fact that Kevin would destroy all life from the land proves how evil Lord Foul is & what he represents. I’m not SRD, so I don’t know for sure, but for me nothing else really explains Landsdrop. I see nothing occurring naturally which resembles this at all. He may have had magical creatures & something like the ‘force’ going on, but his trees were still trees and the mountains were still mountains. Landsdrop isn’t just an accident, something interesting to put on a map, it’s a scar running down the length of the land, and a scar always comes from a wound.

Lord Louf wrote:

As for my RoD theory, it makes perfect sense. Kevin & Foul performed the RoD at Mount Thunder. The land to the east falls, to the west rises, on the pivot of the only structure which would still end up straddling that part of the land. It makes absolute perfect sense. The resulting earthquakes would rend the land from end to end, from guard’s cap to where ruinwash empties into the sea. Just contemplate the kind of earthquake necessary to drop a tectonic plate? 12.5? 15.8? Probably the only reason Mount Thunder survives at all is because that’s where they were when they bonded in Kevin’s despair. It’s probably how the illearth stone was formed in the first place, the stillborn of that ill act. The fact that Kevin would destroy all life from the land proves how evil Lord Foul is & what he represents. I’m not SRD, so I don’t know for sure, but for me nothing else really explains Landsdrop. I see nothing occurring naturally which resembles this at all. He may have had magical creatures & something like the ‘force’ going on, but his trees were still trees and the mountains were still mountains. Landsdrop isn’t just an accident, something interesting to put on a map, it’s a scar running down the length of the land, and a scar always comes from a wound.

I totally agree with you LL. This is exactly what I've always thought myself. In fact, I could have sworn there was a reference somewhere to Landsdrop being a result of the ROD, although now that I think about it I don't think there actually is. Funny how I sometimes add things into a story without even noticing I've done so. Still, it makes perfect sense to me.

lord luof wrote:Actually some were jokes and actually you don’t seem like a very nice person

i accepted that some were jokes... but as i didn't know which u meant as jokes i examined them all. sorry if i caused offence, it was not my intention. (been up all night doing things, its now 9:22am and i'm exhausted, grumpy and very frustrated...)

now having read that explaination of your RoD theory... it does sound plasuable... but i'm not convinced... i'm quite stuck on lands drops being there before the RoD...

but having said that:

lord luof wrote:The resulting earthquakes would rend the land from end to end, from guard’s cap to where ruinwash empties into the sea. Just contemplate the kind of earthquake necessary to drop a tectonic plate? 12.5? 15.8?

perhaps we are both right in this instance... the upper and lower land may be different plates, but they didn't have the force to move untill the RoD, where massive power was released and gave them the momentum to move...

perhaps we should get a seperate thread going about the upper and lower land... i can think of at least 2 different theories about it now... perhaps with added insight there may be several more...
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Good idea about the illearth stone though, i'd always thought of it to be put there by foul during the creation the land, but you could be right... the colossal force nessisary to rend the land life-less for thousands of years would have easily been able to produce a by-product...

there may be some truth in this theory... i have to think about it some more...

Yeah you two, you're both right eh? ... don't earthquakes occur AT meetings of plates.

When it was created, the Colossus was placed at the edge, to keep the Ravers out of the Upper Land. This happened long before the RoD.

yeah, i thought so....

and landwaster, earthquakes occur when plates move, not when they meet

heh... *ish being all boffiney n shtuff*

Say "Hi" to duckie for me.

duckie says "hewwowies"

I didn't mean 'when' they meet, I meant 'where' they meet.

Earthquakes tend to follow faultlines, which are where plates meet, right?

So, earthquakes happen where they meet, when they move. How's that?