Kevin's Watch

cybrweez wrote:No, you become greedy and selfish, and care just as little for others as the bomber.

Because you don't believe in afterlife? Now there's a connection I can't make. Can anyone else see the logic?

The connection is w/the realization I better get mine now.

I think I catch your drift Cybr: I can understand how believing in an afterlife can make you less selfish, if you put your life on the line so that others may live. But as I said, I more often see it having the opposite effect.

Now, someone who does not believe in the afterlife will be pressed to live this life to its fullest I agree. But I can't see that would entail more egoism, Unless you, as a believer in afterlife, would truly neglect a chance that presented itself to you with the argument: "Nah, I can always do that in the next life". Being meek is not being altruistic in my view.

Prebe wrote:I think I catch your drift Cybr: I can understand how believing in an afterlife can make you less selfish, if you put your life on the line so that others may live. But as I said, I more often see it having the opposite effect.

You see more bombers than selfless people? Is that b/c there really are more, or the media is more interested in one over the other (and not interested in one at all really).

No I don't. I don't see selfless people, afterlife believers or not. Perhaps the media are to blame.

I am only sure that people that do not fear death scare me.

Cybrweez wrote:

Kinslaughterer wrote:Notice how each of those tyrants you mention create their own pseudo-religion to justify their methods...

So that reflects poorly on the religion they stole from?

Not necessarily, but on religion in general I think.

--A

So if I nuked the rest of Africa, and said I did it to protect South Africans, would that reflect poorly on South Africans?

If you're not one? To a certain extent, yes, I think. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to expand.

Next week.

Have a good one

--A

Prebe wrote:No I don't. I don't see selfless people, afterlife believers or not. Perhaps the media are to blame.

I am only sure that people that do not fear death scare me.

Wow, really? I don't fear death Prebe. Because I don't believe there is "death" only a "passing on".

I see many many selfless people, and some believe in an afterlife and some don't, quite a few right here on the Watch as a matter of fact.

Maybe you don't see them, because you are not looking in the right places??

Furls Fire wrote:Maybe you don't see them, because you are not looking in the right places??

I agree, but wish to add that, if you don't believe in it in the first place, one cannot or may not be able to see it? I'm certain sometimes people who are selfless may appear to the "cynical" person as having some hidden agenda or motive, when there actually isn't one?

Prebe: i don't fear death. heaven awaits.

Avatar wrote:

Cybrweez wrote:

Kinslaughterer wrote:Notice how each of those tyrants you mention create their own pseudo-religion to justify their methods...

So that reflects poorly on the religion they stole from?

Not necessarily, but on religion in general I think.

--A

It reflects poorly on the Followers of religion: Hitler tapped into the need for belief that his eventual followers had, and multiplied the effect of that need by tapping into their fears.

He had a successful model to work from in religions that preceded him, and it's not like those who came later were loath to repeat the lessons he took advantage of - just watch the 700 Club, and you'll learn all about how the need for belief and the fear of the other combine to create an effective force of followers.

Remember:

-Any Other that enjoys life more than you is deviant.

-Any Other that has a harder life than you deserves it.

-Any Other that disagrees with you is blasphemous.

-Any Other that has a different worldview is Satanic.

-Any Other that has more education than you is suspect.

The list goes on but the foundation is the same, whether you're in a Judeo Christian Cult or a Fascist Regime.

This is all silly. Anyone who believes in God believes in some sort of afterlife.

And, as I've said before, I could care less what others believe. I know where I'm going when I die. I hope that Plissken, Edge, 'Weeze, ur-bane, and the rest of my friends are there so I can buy them a drink. But the bottom line is that all I can controll is myself.

sgnull wrote:Prebe: i don't fear death. heaven awaits.

Cail wrote: I hope that Plissken, Edge, 'Weeze, ur-bane, and the rest of my friends are there so I can buy them a drink.

It's gonna be a helluva party

"The guys" => Prebe =>

Furls wrote:Maybe you don't see them, because you are not looking in the right places??

Probably Furls, or maybe I am just too cynical.

I should point out that there are two ways to use religion, and as always, it comes down to a choice between Joy and Fear.

At the two extremes are the extremists who scare the hell out of Prebe (and myself, for that matter) - The ones who become suicide bombers, blow up abortion clinics, send all of their worldly possessions to Pat Robertson, etc., and the ones who write stuff like this:

Wow, really? I don't fear death Prebe. Because I don't believe there is "death" only a "passing on".

I see many many selfless people, and some believe in an afterlife and some don't, quite a few right here on the Watch as a matter of fact. icon_smile.gif

and

And, as I've said before, I could care less what others believe. I know where I'm going when I die. I hope that Plissken, Edge, 'Weeze, ur-bane, and the rest of my friends are there so I can buy them a drink. But the bottom line is that all I can controll is myself.

You see the difference? I do.

The same religion that creates the good people in the 'Tank can also create the varying degrees of xenophobic, fascist, and despicable folk who so shun the world their God has given them, and the people in it, that they can abuse, terrorize, and even kill others in the name of their "love" of God.

Do you want to see a really good place to look?

My husband, Russ just got back from doing shelter work down in Miss. He volunteered his time, along with thousands of other "selfless" people to help those devastated by Hurricane Katrina. These people don't get paid to do this, they put in 12-14 hour days in these Red Cross shelters doing mostly manual labor. Russell was there for a little over 3 weeks. When he came home, there were others waiting to take his place.

Prebe, there are selfless, warm hearted people everywhere.

Of course there are selfless people - and many of them are selfless because of Secular Humanism, just as there many selfish bastards created by perverse religions.

(Of course, the opposites are true as well! )

Prebe wrote:

sgnull wrote:Prebe: i don't fear death. heaven awaits.

Cail wrote: I hope that Plissken, Edge, 'Weeze, ur-bane, and the rest of my friends are there so I can buy them a drink.

It's gonna be a helluva party

"The guys" => Prebe =>

Furls wrote:Maybe you don't see them, because you are not looking in the right places??

Probably Furls, or maybe I am just too cynical.

"The guys" => ..................Prebe and The Esmer and hot chicks with weed =>

Nice words there Pliss and Furls. And of course I see the difference.

Of course there are selfless people - and many of them are selfless because of Secular Humanism, just as there many selfish bastards created by perverse religions.
(Of course, the opposites are true as well! )

Amen to that (if you pardon the expression)

Thanks for the invitation The Esmer. Count on me!

werd up, Prebe! have you met Sindee? she'll be at the party....