Kevin's Watch

Earthfriend wrote:Hang on F&F; are you saying that hollywood will have a feel-good ending to the Matrix series, with the evil machines overthrown by the good and virtous Neo and Co.? Surely not...

Yowza! What was I thinking???

Earthfriend wrote:my favorite ending to the series would be Neo's sickening realisation that he never left the matrix..BWAHAHAHA!

Yeah, that would be the best!! With him then coming to the realization that, even if he "wakes up" in the future, there's NO WAY he could ever know for sure that he wasn't still in the matrix.

This is starting to sound too much like Existenz...

Tell me, really - are we still in the game?

Exactly! - now that was a cool movie...

Never heard of that one. When did it come out?

yeah Existenz was cool .. but I'm not hoping for an existenxz ending here .. It would be entirely unsatisfying imho .. However having said that .. the scene where in his 'reality' he battled the machines .. he shouldnt've been able to do that ..

Clearly the powers within the Matrix are exercised because of the acknowledgment that it is not his reality ..

so there is a possibility that his accepted reality is not in fact 'real' ..

though having broken free of the Matrix .. so literally .. <when spewed out of those energiser bunny sacks> .. you expect an endgame .. not an entry level to the next game ..

mmm .. nope I've just convinced myself .. that this is a feasible outcome .. to have a mind blowing .. hellfire we're still in the game .. kinda ending ..

dammit!!

Yup. Quite a situation! Heck, we can't absolutely prove it even to ourselves!! No reason to think it's true, but no way to prove it's not. But I hope they figure out a way to rule it out. For us, even if not for Neo, et al.

Way before the Matrix I used to know people who'd remark that sometimes if you turned around fast enough, you'd see a blank screen. Not that they were serious, but being somewhat inclined towards solipsism, the possibility of that type of existence or even the reality has never really bothered me.

I agree Caer. Even if our exsistance is merely a construct, what difference does it make to those within the construct - especially if they have no idea that their lives are not 'real'?

If it smells like a fish, tastes like a fish, and looks like a fish - it's a fish! (Or a hamster! )

Neo's distress, and hence our own, stems from his certain knowledge that his life was (or perhaps still is) a construct, drastically reducing his 'right' to free-will.

I agree. If the nature or reality is other than what we normally think of as "real," then no big deal. If it plays out the same, what's the difference?

But if there is a true reality that is NOT what we assume it to be, and what we think of as reality is being determined for us by other beings, then I want my freedom.


btw, anybody know the Star Trek: TNG episodes with Moriarty? Similar stuff happened there.

"Elementary, Dear Data

and
"Ship in a Bottle"

It's in "ship in a bottle" that Picard asks if they, perhaps, aren't just in somebody else's reality.

This idea is played with at the end of both MIB movies too...

Hmm, I don't remember them well enough. I guess one of them would be something like a universe inside that necklace?

Yeah, and at the end of the first movie we see that our universe is just a marble in some huge alien kids game...and at the end of the second movie, Smith and Jones open the door to a train staiont locker to find that they are the ones inside the locker, the bigger 'real' world is on the other side.

Ah, I remember that a little now. Well, for me, it's ok if we find out that things aren't what we thought. After all, we're learning about reality all the time. But I don't want someone else deciding what I will and will not know about it.

Yes, it's the conscious manipulation of a another person's reality/identity/beliefs which i find despicable, too

To see a world in a grain of sand
And heaven in a wild flower
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand
And eternity in an hour.

-Blake

speaking of, and yet still going off topic, anybody seen the movie Dead Man (Depp, 1995)? Just saw it a few days ago, and it's going on the top 10 list.

One of my favs Syl! My man Neil on mad guitar!

Syl, I can't figure out where I've heard that quote before, but I know it. It'll probably drive me crazy for the rest of the night!!!!

I don't remember ever even hearing of Dead Man. Top 10? Wow! Guess I'd better check it out!

Truly, Danlo. I wish I had someone to just follow me around and play the guitar while I just walk around and stuff.

Fist, I most recently heard that bit of Blake quoted in the movie Tomb Raider, if that helps.