Kevin's Watch

I wasn't talking about you. For god's sake, you aren't even 70 yet are you?! I'm simply bemoaning the fact that we can take a hunter in epic gear all the way to the tippy top of kara (prince Melch) and have to explain what should be basic game mechanics to them. (And it took an excruciatingly long time in the instance I am thinking of, and he still screwed it up )

I don't think YOU are dumb, I just think that there are a lot of dumb hunters out there. If played well, the class is amazingly fun and deep and wonderful to have in a group. But there are some skills that are vital for late game grouping that hunters just never have occasion to develop because, for the most part, soloing never tests them. How good are you at keeping mobs trapped away from the group? Kiting mobs away from healers? Effectively pulling an instance with MD? (Pulling is a subtle art, and hunters really are made for it, but you rarely see a hunter good enough to do it.

If I was in a regular shadowlabs with you, and I knew it was one of your first late game dungeons, I would be happy to help you learn some of these things. I know it can be exhausting to listen to us talk about all this stuff that is kind of over your head at this point. But sometimes, when you reach a certain level of play (raids and higher end heroics) we take for granted that there are certain things people are able to do. A warlock is able to use up to 3 forms of CC at once, mages are able to keep close watch on their polymorphs and aoe without getting crushed, a warrior is able to effectively build aggro and protect the healers from getting it, a healer is able to keep alive under pressure and dole out heals where they are needed to prevent a wipe, rogues need to stay in melee range, and be quick with stuns and interrupts. Hunters need to pull effectively and use their survivability to protect the more fragile members.

But like I said, 5 man dynamics is something that takes practice. That's why the standard dungeons exist, they provide a great learning curve for raids and heroics. Players who get past that learning curve without learning basic class mechanics can annoy those of us who do understand our class.

Yo, DC area Watchers who wade into this forum occasionally (oh, CreAAAAAtor!!) and/or friends of same: Please poke your head into the SRD forum and let me know whether you'll be able to make it to Xarfest on the night before Thanksgiving. And if there's a better night that week than Wednesday, please let me know before I have to book a table someplace. Thank yew.

(Jeez oh petes, the things I have to do for these people...mutter grumble...)

I was wondering, Ali, if you broke down and got a copy!

Yeah, Luci, TD meant nothing personal in his comments. It's just his observations in regards to individuals of a class who go on those high level raids (advanced HH, basically) without knowing about all the tools of the class.

i didn't say he DID mean something personally directed at ME, i said (in so many words) that i find those kind of comments a bit pompous. particularly when I have recently been asking questions about how to learn how to pvp.
i find that most people give fairly vague answers about how to learn these things.
i find the moniker "huntard" to be obnoxious.
i'm takin the piss outa TD because he's got that "pissing on huntards from a great height" tone that i'm sort of sick of hearing from other classes.
of course you've all decided i'm sitting here at my computer C R Y I N G and hysterically freaking out.
i assure you, i am not.
you all don't have to calm me down. honest. i'm not going to stalk his toon or anything...

yes, dreambutt, i am 70. what is a "shadowlab"? did you just come out of the womb "understanding" your class?

recently one of the newer, (non-watcher) guild members who has a hunter main in another guild volunteered to help me by dueling me for a bit. THAT was helpful.
telling me that "it takes practice" is not helpful. (kindly meant but not helpful)
practice what? practice how? shit i had to copy someone else's BM spec because i really couldn't figure out what would be the best for how i like to fight.
so...

now you know...not a good idea to use the word huntard around me. yes?

Lucimay wrote:
now you know...not a good idea to use the word huntard around me. yes?

I think I was the one who said that, and it was about myself, as a joke. I'm not fond of the word, but it amused me in the context I was using it in.

TD made some good points, though 'players who get past that learning curve without learning basic class mechanics' can be said of all classes, not just hunters.

Many in the guild didn't run many dungeons with full level-appropriate groups at low or mid levels, and you may feel free to blame me for that, as it is a good way to learn every aspect of your class, whatever that class may be.

And that said, I can't think of anyone who is.... underperforming, for lack of a better word. We have recently succeeded with some fairly difficult instances and group quests.

Not to mention that having an awesome paladin as the main (and only) guild tank doesn't leave much time to practice dungeon crowd control and such. I know I'm spoiled; I can't remember the last time I had to ice trap something, or pull adds off a healer in an instance.

We rock, and we have fun doing so, and that's what counts.

Sorus wrote:

Lucimay wrote:
now you know...not a good idea to use the word huntard around me. yes?

I think I was the one who said that, and it was about myself, as a joke. I'm not fond of the word, but it amused me in the context I was using it in.

TD made some good points, though 'players who get past that learning curve without learning basic class mechanics' can be said of all classes, not just hunters.

Many in the guild didn't run many dungeons with full level-appropriate groups at low or mid levels, and you may feel free to blame me for that, as it is a good way to learn every aspect of your class, whatever that class may be.

And that said, I can't think of anyone who is.... underperforming, for lack of a better word. We have recently succeeded with some fairly difficult instances and group quests.

Not to mention that having an awesome paladin as the main (and only) guild tank doesn't leave much time to practice dungeon crowd control and such. I know I'm spoiled; I can't remember the last time I had to ice trap something, or pull adds off a healer in an instance.

We rock, and we have fun doing so, and that's what counts.

i certainly do NOT blame you for ANYthing other than being entirely helpful and solitious, sorusbooboohead! :p (you dueled me TOO, after all!)

though 'players who get past that learning curve without learning basic class mechanics' can be said of all classes, not just hunters.

PRECISELY! why pick on huntar..er...hunters?

and it's my own fault for not going in BGs earlier during my leveling! i just didn't want to look stupid or get yelled at...so i didn't go and learn.
now i'm paying. and whining about it! (whining is good for the soul)

honestly i can easily see how a lvl 70 ANYthing could get to that point where they haven't learned how to effectively use every single one of their skills.

and "basics"? what the hell are the basics? i just trained up on everything i could and i use what seems to cause the most damage without getting mobs all over me and getting beat to shit. i figured i was doing good to MAKE IT to 70. i'll learn. and i intend to have fun doing so...even if it means going in a BG and getting my ass whomped.
i just don't like people yelling at me if i make mistakes you know.

(and once again, i was NOT having a hissy fit at TD, i was just EMPHASIZING a point! yeesh. don't you all know me well enough by now? i'm PRICKLY!!)

Lucimay wrote:PRECISELY! why pick on huntar..er...hunters?

Though it may be risky, I'm going to answer this question.
Hunters are the most popular class in WoW. There are probably jsut as many bad hunters as there are bad players of any class, but there are more of them, so they get noticed. Hunters are also considered the easiest class to level - as The Dreaming said, "a class that can level to 70 with autoshoot", though it's not quite that simple. Pretty much this: it is easier for Hunters to reach 70 without learning the best way to play their class than it is for other classes to do so. This doesn't mean the other classes don't manage it just fine (see: Warrior tanks who don't Thunderclap because it "only does 184 damage").

Sorus wrote:Not to mention that having an awesome paladin as the main (and only) guild tank doesn't leave much time to practice dungeon crowd control and such. I know I'm spoiled; I can't remember the last time I had to ice trap something, or pull adds off a healer in an instance.

Hmm. Magisters' Terrace sometime? Or SLabs? I hear they're pretty CC heavy.

MgT. Faster and better drops.

I ran SL almost every week back when it was required for Kara attunement. Everyone should go at least once; it has some of the more interesting boss fights in the game. Full-party mind control, anyone?

If it wasn't for the fact I think I'd get slaughtered on Heroic mode, I'd drag you guys into Heroic MgT to get a Shard of Contempt and Commendation of Kael'thas.


Server is down for three-hour maintenance. I managed to enjoy the fifteen minutes my internet connection decided to function perfectly for while the countdown was going, but it looks like my net's bowing out again for the moment....

I took the day off, there are some workers that will have to get into the house later, so I figured I'd while away some time online... No, the servers are down.

Wonder what problem's so big it needs three hours to fix?


Question: I've been thinking over the last couple of days about how I'm going to manage to get my hands on WotLK, since it doesn't seem likely Blizz will offer online upgrades for a while after release. Would any of you guys be willing to buy an extra copy of the expansion and email me the authentication key? I can send you the money through paypal for purchase and shipping the discs out to me.

Murrin wrote:Question: I've been thinking over the last couple of days about how I'm going to manage to get my hands on WotLK, since it doesn't seem likely Blizz will offer online upgrades for a while after release. Would any of you guys be willing to buy an extra copy of the expansion and email me the authentication key? I can send you the money through paypal for purchase and shipping the discs out to me.

Funny. That crossed my mind this morning as to how you were going to get a copy. I was thinking of pre-ordering this week from Best Buy, I could add one for you.

I'd appreciate it if you could. Just tell me how much it is, and how much it'll cost to send the game over afterwards, and I'll make sure to pay you back.

awwwwww. thats so sweet! i love you guys!! doh! silly murrin! any ONE of us would get you a copy of course!!! silly silly tanky!! *hugs murrin*

and thanks for actually answering the question. yer a good egg you.

Yeah sorry, that's one of the things that can make it hard to get into this game sometimes, the people like me who have been playing since release I was running SM, ST, ZF, and Mara when there weren't any level 60's. I'll admit, I kinda sucked back then.

There is a reason Hunters are so popular, it's cause they are so much damn fun to play. It is kinda unfair of me to look down my nose at newer players, and I'm kinda sorry for it. It's like that anywhere, the grizzled veterans lording over the recruits.

The problem is, most people resent being taught how to play their class, and it's a big block to learning new tricks and skills. A *good* player is someone who will see someone do something cool that they haven't seen done before with "wow, I need to learn how to do that!". For example, so many locks wail on seduction as being really garbage cc, but combined with curse of elements, and used on ranged mobs, it can be made fairly reliable. A good lock who notices me doing that will say "that's a great idea, I'd like to try that". A *bad* lock will insist that seduction is garbage cc and make fun of me. (and maybe even break my cc on purpose).

(And I never once said "huntard", although I was responding to it's use, which was mostly meant as a joke)

ok. now THAT'S helpful advice. to watch other players. trouble with that is that sometimes people are doing things so fast you can't tell WHAT they're doing. but it is good advice. i will ask ferax, kaehln, and storm to show me some tricky things! course none of them are BM spec'd now.

I actually am Beastmaster at the moment, though depending on what we do this weekend I may go back to Survival.

If we do MgT I will want the trap mastery talents that make trap duration longer than the cooldown.

If we do Black Morass I'll stay Beastmaster.

I don't remember what else was on the agenda.

Murrin wrote: .. it is easier for Hunters to reach 70 without learning the best way to play their class than it is for other classes to do so. This doesn't mean the other classes don't manage it just fine (see: Warrior tanks who don't Thunderclap because it "only does 184 damage")..

Then there are clothies that THINK they are tanks ... and do other bizzare things! [note to self: remember to clap with my Warrior (you mean I shouldn't just keep him on Beserk stance?! )]

PS. Kysen is awesome .... amazing little tank collecting up all the baddies and then GONE. If I can just remember to keep him healed!

Patch day today. Last one before the release next week.

Nine days until WotLK!

woooo hoodey!!