Kevin's Watch

Okay, now that we've officially beat the miniskirt thing into the ground, why did DLB hate the movie? Did he disagree with one of McCoy's diagnoses?

If I read what dlb posted correctly,
he wanted ...philosophy
...wisdom
...insight
all the deep stuff that TOS has a reputation for.

But, I think Abrams made the right choice.
Beorn hasn't seen TOS at all.
And he is now totally into this version of the franchise.
I think a heavier movie wouldn't have drawn him in right away. Now that he's a fan, a message can be attempted in a future film.

...in my opinion, anyway.

lorin wrote:[/spoiler]if one drop of the red matter destroyed the entire Vulcan planet, how is it that the entire big red ball of red matter didnt implode the universe?

I did enjoy it, fit like an old familiar comfortable glove.

Because it would need mass equal to the mass of the universe to generate a gravity field to draw the universe in (black holes only generate a gravity field equal to their mass - if the Sun became a block hole, other than receiving no light we wouldn't know about it . . .until you passed its event horizon. The reason one tiny piece of red matter destroyed Vulcan was because it fed on the planet and gained mass; the increasingly large black hole continued to feed on the planet, thus leading to rapid growth.

But yes, red matter was a ridiculous concept. As was the supernova with an exploding front that was faster than warp speed 10 . . . and then was found to have not really exploded as Spock found in intact after its explosive front had destroyed Romulus.

Loremaster wrote: But yes, red matter was a ridiculous concept. As was the supernova with an exploding front that was faster than warp speed 10 . . . and then was found to have not really exploded as Spock found in intact after its explosive front had destroyed Romulus.

I do admit, the supernova confused me.

Loremaster wrote:

lorin wrote:[/spoiler]if one drop of the red matter destroyed the entire Vulcan planet, how is it that the entire big red ball of red matter didnt implode the universe?

I did enjoy it, fit like an old familiar comfortable glove.

Because it would need mass equal to the mass of the universe to generate a gravity field to draw the universe in (black holes only generate a gravity field equal to their mass - if the Sun became a block hole, other than receiving no light we wouldn't know about it . . .until you passed its event horizon. The reason one tiny piece of red matter destroyed Vulcan was because it fed on the planet and gained mass; the increasingly large black hole continued to feed on the planet, thus leading to rapid growth.

But yes, red matter was a ridiculous concept. As was the supernova with an exploding front that was faster than warp speed 10 . . . and then was found to have not really exploded as Spock found in intact after its explosive front had destroyed Romulus.

I understood Spock's tale differently (which doesn't mean I'm right). I thought the supernova blew early (how Spock could call that unthinkable, I don't know--isn't he the probability expert?), but Spock completed his task anyway because a supernova could be destructive beyond Romulus.

I'm a poster, not an astrophysicist, but wouldn't a star in nova--being swallowed by a singularity--be more likely to cause the time rip than a star on the brink? Probably makes no difference in the faux-reality of a movie, but just wondering.

dANdeLION wrote:

ItisWritten wrote:Pardon me, I'm just having fun picking at the nits.

dANdeLION wrote:Loved the movie, but still am trying to figure out how Nero armed a freighter without the help of other Romulans, seeing as how Romulus was destroyed and all.

We are talking about Romulans. Aren't all their space-faring vehicles armed? Plus, a mining vessel should be stocked with a sufficient supply of combustibles, and the sensors to find what they needed over the 25 years they waited for Spock.

They had the weapons when they first came through the singularity and blew up daddy Kirk's ship. Then they disappeared for 25 years, and reappeared, taking out the planet Vulcan and 7 Starfleet ships in the process. Had they spent those 25 years looking for more weaponry, I think someone would have spotted them. Besides, their weapons were from the future, which is why they were so effective. And if they had to search for weapons, why didn't they take the weapons off of Spock's ship? Other than the Red Matter, they seemed to leave it completely intact.

That being said, I loved the movie.

In the beginning, Nero didn't need to arm his ship. It's a Romulan ship ready to defend itself, or attack. As a mining ship, Nero would have been able to find the supplies he needed off the beaten path. Then there's the magic of replicators , which means you only need a design and the basic ingredients.

Well, you appear to know more about fictitious alien mining ships than I do.

Menolly wrote:If I read what dlb posted correctly,
he wanted ...philosophy
...wisdom
...insight
all the deep stuff that TOS has a reputation for.

But, I think Abrams made the right choice.
Beorn hasn't seen TOS at all.
And he is now totally into this version of the franchise.
I think a heavier movie wouldn't have drawn him in right away. Now that he's a fan, a message can be attempted in a future film.

...in my opinion, anyway.

Glad you liked the movie!

As for dlb, I thought from his comparing of the film to Galaxy Quest that he disliked it because he felt it was a mockery of Star Trek.

matrixman wrote:Glad you liked the movie!

I did.
a lot.

matrixman wrote:As for dlb, I thought from his comparing of the film to Galaxy Quest that he disliked it because he felt it was a mockery of Star Trek.

*nod*

because of the reasons I listed?

I just don't see what Abrams did as a mockery/satire of Star Trek in and of itself.

i think it was a mistake to exterminate the Romulans and most of the Vulcans. It kills many future story lines.

It also kinda sucks that when the movies started using Romulans instead of Klingons (how I tired of the Klingons!) Poof! The Romulans are gone! Looks like it's back to Klingons again

wait...
...now y'all lost me
wasn't the destruction of Romulus still actually in the future?
and it is the Romulan Empire.
even if Romulus is gone, there would still be colonies of the Empire elsewhere, right?

*I admit I do tend to lose track of details sometimes, so help me out here*

Why do you believe Romulans and Vulcans are gone? The Romulans have an Empire, called the Romulan Empire, surely Romulus is not the only planet peopled by Romulans? Matter of fact, the Gov't on Romulus being devastated, may actually create some really good "rogue Romulan" storylines. And Vulcans, well, they're spread all throughout the Federation, so I can see there being many Vulcans left around, again, their central Gov't has been crippled (though Spock did beam down to get the most important ones of the Gov't, so surely there won't be that big a gap?

Edit - Menolly got in right before me on this question

Menolly wrote:
*I admit I do tend to lose track of details sometimes, so help me out here*

you ain't the only one......................i dunno anymore................

no wait......at the end Spock prime says to Spock youngster that he is needed because of the aniliation of his race or something like that.............................................i need a drink

sindatur wrote:And Vulcans, well, they're spread all throughout the Federation, so I can see there being many Vulcans left around, again, their central Gov't has been crippled (though Spock did beam down to get the most important ones of the Gov't, so surely there won't be that big a gap?

IIRC, I do believe it was said in dialog that it was estimated for there to be a total of "10,000 Vulcan survivors. I am now a member of an endangered species."

Vulcan was destroyed in the current time line.
Romulus in the future...
I think.

sindatur wrote:Edit - Menolly got in right before me on this question

...sorry sindatur...

Menolly wrote:

sindatur wrote:And Vulcans, well, they're spread all throughout the Federation, so I can see there being many Vulcans left around, again, their central Gov't has been crippled (though Spock did beam down to get the most important ones of the Gov't, so surely there won't be that big a gap?

IIRC, I do believe it was said in dialog that it was estimated for there to be a total of "10,000 Vulcan survivors. I am now a member of an endangered species."

Vulcan was destroyed in the current time line.
Romulus in the future...
I think.

sindatur wrote:Edit - Menolly got in right before me on this question

...sorry sindatur...

Yea, I remember the dialog about only 10,000 left, still that's an awful lot, and that number could cause a great many storylines.

No need to apologize, your fingers were just faster, that's all

Fair enough...seems as if I'm just quick to talk smack

sindatur wrote:Yea, I remember the dialog about only 10,000 left, still that's an awful lot, and that number could cause a great many storylines.

It's not all that many, when you consider many major stadiums nowadays hold close to 100K fans...

An entire race, no more than 10% of those watching a live sporting event...

Menolly wrote:

sindatur wrote:Yea, I remember the dialog about only 10,000 left, still that's an awful lot, and that number could cause a great many storylines.

It's not all that many, when you consider many major stadiums nowadays hold close to 100K fans...

An entire race, no more than 10% of those watching a live sporting event...

True, of Billions, it's not that much, but, there is plenty to go a myriad of ways with possible storylines

I've been thinking about this film quite a bit for the past few days, and I've come to the conclusion that my problem is that I'm spoiled by Battlestar Galactica. That series was dark, brooding, full of great writing and storytelling, with great characters and events of consequence.

So, when I realized that, is it any wonder that I don't like a "funny" Star Trek?