Is there a God?

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 1:45 pm

Nice shades Danlo....

Post by **Zephalephelah** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 pm

Darth Revan wrote:hem hem Soooooo is there a God?[/i]

I've noticed several times that you state your disbelief. Then why pose the question?

Anyway, beyond that, why wouldn't you want to believe in hope and instead just believe it was all chance?

And why not figure out a way to kill your boss & get away with it, if you don't like him? I mean, if you get away with it then so what right? No one should care. There is no God. When you die you'll become nothing. You might as well buy cheap cars so that you can ram them into people who drive badly. Their pain is meaningless. It will go away or they will die, but eventually they will die & that's all that matters. You're just speeding things up a little. I'm sure if you were quite brilliant and inward you could get away with killing quite a few people and not get caught.

Why get married? Get involved in the porn industry. Live for the moment, because you only have a short while. I mean, what's the point of morols and ethics and good and evil when everything was just chance anyway. You should do things that others would never do because they are "held back" by their beliefs in a higher power. Right?

Post by **hierachy** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:24 pm

Are you trying to say that the only reason to do good things is because of a fear of going to hell?

You see this is where the true question lies. I don't believe in god, but I don't necisarily disbelieve either. I like to think I am a good person, but I don't do good things because I am afraid of hell, or because I want to trick god into letting me into heaven, I do them because of who I am.

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:38 pm

I've noticed several times that you state your disbelief. Then why pose the question?

Because it's an interesting discussion.

Anyway, beyond that, why wouldn't you want to believe in hope and instead just believe it was all chance?

I wouldn't mate, trust me, I'd like to believe in God, like people with real faith do, I envy them in some ways, and yet pity them in others. To have that faith that there is a God is a treasure to have, I used to have it, when I was a child; but do not anymore.
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And why not figure out a way to kill your boss & get away with it, if you don't like him? I mean, if you get away with it then so what right? No one should care. There is no God.

Because just because there is no God, doesn't mean we shouldn't have morals. And also, I don't have a Job

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When you die you'll become nothing.

I didn't say that
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You might as well buy cheap cars so that you can ram them into people who drive badly. Their pain is meaningless. It will go away or they will die, but eventually they will die & that's all that matters. You're just speeding things up a little. I'm sure if you were quite brilliant and inward you could get away with killing quite a few people and not get caught.

Again, just because they're is no God, it doesn't mean life is meaningless.
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Why get married?

Because you love the person you're getting married to.
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Get involved in the porn industry?
I'm not, but I can think of a million reasons why someone would

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Live for the moment, because you only have a short while. I mean, what's the point of morols and ethics and good and evil when everything was just chance anyway.

The point in Morals and ethics and good and evil when everything was just chance? Er... well because life is life, I want to be happy and live through it the same way everyone else does
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You should do things that others would never do because they are "held back" by their beliefs in a higher power. Right?

Belief in a higher power isn't the only thing holding people back from doing bad things. Do you truly believe that everyone on this Earth doesn't kill because their held back by their religion.

Post by **Zephalephelah** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:44 pm

Hierachy wrote:Are you trying to say that the only reason to do good things is because of a fear of going to hell?

You see this is where the true question lies. I don't believe in god, but I don't necisarily disbelieve either. I like to think I am a good person, but I don't do good things because I am afraid of hell, or because I want to trick god into letting me into heaven, I do them because of who I am.

Oh not at all sir, my back is to hell but not out of fear, but because my face is toward heaven.

Anyway, I don't believe that people are burned in hell forever. There's only 1 verse where it says something like that, the rest are about the demons, hades, and satan going to hell forever. I think that people just get burned up. That would be terrible enough. I'm not even going to stick a match under my thumb.

The reason I choose God isn't fear of hell, it is hope for heaven. Like I said, if this world has beauty and it is temporal, then I cannot begin to imagine the glorious vistas that await me in the afterlife. I'm excited for it. I live now only because of doubt. Everyone has doubt, even the most dedicated. We don't have knowledge, we have faith. But you know, even if I am wrong, I had something to look forward to.

Post by **Zephalephelah** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:47 pm

Darth Revan wrote:Belief in a higher power isn't the only thing holding people back from doing bad things. Do you truly believe that everyone on this Earth doesn't kill because their held back by their religion.

I believe that conscience is a byproduct of the existence of God. I think we all believe it in our own way, even when we say we don't we think that still there is a small chance.

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:51 pm

Zephalephelah wrote:I think we all believe it in our own way, even when we say we don't we think that still there is a small chance.

True, I think that is because of the way society is. And also because we would all love to think that we will live forever. Of course humans would hope for such a thing.

Post by **Zephalephelah** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:58 pm

Well this day was much more enjoyable for me than yesterday!!

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:00 pm

Good!

you should be enjoying your time on the Watch!

Post by **Brinn** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:02 pm

From a purely intellectual standpoint, to believe their is no god is just as illogical as stating that you believe in God. There is no scientific proof either way and both views ultimately rely on individual faith. Therefore, in my opinion, Athiesm is as much a religion as Christianity, Islamism or any other deific group because it holds a position that cannot be objectively verified and relies on faith in a belief system.

Thus, IMHO, I feel the only scientifically supported choice is agnosticism. Notice I do not use the world "logical" to suggest that agnosticism is, IMO, a good choice. Personally, I believe in God but I recognize it is a matter of faith. However even if I did not believe in God it could be argued, via Pascal's Wager, that belief in God is a statistically logical and mathematically sound position. Look at the table below describing the possible outcomes for Pascal's Wager:

| ___________________|___God Exists__|__God Does not Exist_|
|_Believe in God_______|___Reward____|__No Ramification____|
|_Do Not Believe in God_|__Punishment__|__No Ramification____|

Believing in God superdominates wagering against God: the worst outcome associated with wagering for God (No Ramification) is at least as good as the best outcome associated with wagering against God (No Ramification) and if God exists, the result of wagering for God is better that the result of wagering against God.

Certainly this is a cynical and selfish way to establish a personal belief system however, purely from a logical standpoint, it is sound provided that the probability for Gods existence is greater than zero.

Just my

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:06 pm

There is no prove, i have to see it to believe it.

Post by **hierachy** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:11 pm

that was the whole point of what brinn wrote Darth

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:14 pm

I didn't see Brinn's post, sorry.

Post by **Brinn** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:17 pm

Thanks Hier!

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:29 pm

Sorry about that Brinn, heh, bad me.

Post by **Brinn** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:58 pm

Heh, no apologies necessary Darth.

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 4:59 pm

oh, In that case sorry for the unnecessary sorry

Post by **Brinn** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:01 pm

Meh, No need to apologize for your uneccessary apology.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Is there a God?