Kevin's Watch

Avatar wrote:

TheFallen wrote:Mr. Worm, I should probably have rather said that I find Sam intensely irritating, ironically enough for the very same reasons that you like him. He shows nothing but dumb overweening loyalty and forelock-tugging subservience - it's his sole defining characteristic, the two dimensional cretinous buffoon.

Yeah, I have to agree to a large extent. Part of it is a consequence of the time that the story was written probably, and the then-current and recently past conventions, but he does annoy me a lot of the time.

--A

...The buffoon without whom Frodo would have been nothing.

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

Avatar wrote:

TheFallen wrote:Mr. Worm, I should probably have rather said that I find Sam intensely irritating, ironically enough for the very same reasons that you like him. He shows nothing but dumb overweening loyalty and forelock-tugging subservience - it's his sole defining characteristic, the two dimensional cretinous buffoon.

Yeah, I have to agree to a large extent. Part of it is a consequence of the time that the story was written probably, and the then-current and recently past conventions, but he does annoy me a lot of the time.

--A

...The buffoon without whom Frodo would have been nothing.

Yes, that's the buffoon, right enough. I'm not for one second doubting Sam's absolutely crucial role in the destruction of the one ring - that however doesn't stop me being irritated by his character (or lack of it).

TheFallen wrote:

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

Avatar wrote: Yeah, I have to agree to a large extent. Part of it is a consequence of the time that the story was written probably, and the then-current and recently past conventions, but he does annoy me a lot of the time.

--A

...The buffoon without whom Frodo would have been nothing.

Yes, that's the buffoon, right enough. I'm not for one second doubting Sam's absolutely crucial role in the destruction of the one ring - that however doesn't stop me being irritated by his character (or lack of it).

They both would have failed without Gollum

I don't know, call me a fantasy heretic or something, but Tolkien does little for me. And discussing/arguing about Tolkien books does little for me, either.

Best thing from Tolkien? The Silmarillion. I quite liked that.

As for the rest, yeah we owe him a debt, yadda yadda yadda...but the books themselves? Blah. Give me SRD, Erikson, and GG Kay anyday.

...and the ending of LotR sucks.

Horrim Carabal wrote:I don't know, call me a fantasy heretic or something, but Tolkien does little for me. And discussing/arguing about Tolkien books does little for me, either.

Best thing from Tolkien? The Silmarillion. I quite liked that.

As for the rest, yeah we owe him a debt, yadda yadda yadda...but the books themselves? Blah. Give me SRD, Erikson, and GG Kay anyday.

...and the ending of LotR sucks.

Blasphemy! I like LotR, though I have always liked The Silmarillion more. Children of Hurin was excellent as well.

A quick scan of the posts in this thread learned me some of my own fantasy favorites are among the general favorites, but not all.
In no partical order:

- Earthsea, Ursula Leguin. Often mentioned. I didn't like the fourth book, Tehanu, though.

- Tolkien's middle earth, especially Silmarillion.

- Tanith Lee, Flat Earth series. Haven't seen this one mentioned. Anyone familiar with? Really like the sense of humour, the very coherent world she creates here.

- Roger Zelazny's Lord of Light. I read some of the earlier Amber books and I did like them, but I prefer Lord of Light. Top class.


I guess those are my top 4. Some other "honorable mentions":
- Mists of Avalon, Bradley and
- Terence White's The Once and Future King (both Arthurian fantasy).
- Herbert's Dune novels, especially the first book. I guess this is more SF than fantasy.
- In a way you might call mythological stories fantasy as well. That would bring me to include some Nordic and Hindu mythology: Völuspá, Edda, Mahabharata. Anyone seen Peter Brook's Mahabharata (televised)? Love it.
- Harry Potter

This is all by heart, I'm sure I'm forgetting some big ones. I'll check my books.