Insanity of the Left

[Zarathustra]

AP says it will capitalize Black but not white

[SoulBiter]

WOW..... this is the sentence:

“We will closely watch how usage and thought evolves, and will periodically review our decision,”

[Hashi Lebwohl]

So we will have "Black Death" and "Black Thursday" but where the POTUS lives is the "white House"? I would say "that doesn't make any sense" but we already know it doesn't make sense because it is illogical. White supremacists do not feel like any power they may have comes from whether or not a word is capitalized. The Associated Press is just stupid news, anyway--they write their articles at an 8th grade level.

What if someone's surname is "White"? Are they going to disrespect that person by not capitalizing their name? What about place names such as White Sands?

[Peasant]

So we will have "Black Death" and "Black Thursday" but where the POTUS lives is the "white House"? ...
What if someone's surname is "White"? Are they going to disrespect that person by not capitalizing their name? What about place names such as White Sands?

That's a blatant misunderstanding of what capital-B Black means. Consider reading the first sentence of the AP article in question:

After changing its usage rules last month to capitalize the word “Black” when used in the context of race and culture, The Associated Press on Monday said it would not do the same for “white.”

"Black" is being acknowledged as a reference to a culture. Black is being capitalized in that context because it's a pronoun. That's it. Not complicated.

[Skyweir]

I think I love you peasant so nice to have the insinuation of reason into discussion

[Peasant]

<3 Sky!

Now I'm just waiting on someone to get in here with "but mah white culture!"

[Skyweir]

^5

[TheFallen]

So we will have "Black Death" and "Black Thursday" but where the POTUS lives is the "white House"? ...
What if someone's surname is "White"? Are they going to disrespect that person by not capitalizing their name? What about place names such as White Sands?

That's a blatant misunderstanding of what capital-B Black means. Consider reading the first sentence of the AP article in question:

After changing its usage rules last month to capitalize the word "Black" when used in the context of race and culture, The Associated Press on Monday said it would not do the same for "white."

"Black" is being acknowledged as a reference to a culture. Black is being capitalized in that context because it's a pronoun. That's it. Not complicated.

Well hold on a second here (be warned... linguist alert).

One thing that the word "black" (or "Black") is NOT is a pronoun. Fact.

It's either a common noun or an adjective. Period. That is indisputable.

My issue with the AP's decision is pure inconsistency. Now, if you want to make it clear that you're using the word "black" in an ethnic or cultural sense, then okay, capitalise it if you must. Possibly that may add some clarity for some.

But then on what grounds can one possibly apply different standards to the word "white"? Why not capitalise that for the purposes of clarity if you're using that particular word in an ethnic or cultural sense? It makes absolutely no sense.

So according to its stated guidelines, the AP will be presenting one and all with lines of copy such as the following hypothetical example:-

"There is a growing sense of Black unease at white privilege."

It's ridiculous, inconsistent and illogical.

Let's leave aside the fact that only proper nouns should typically be capitalised (and for those of you who are not aware of the difference between a proper and a common noun, this will do as a neat explanation):-

A proper noun is a noun that identifies a single entity and is used to refer to that entity, such as London, Jupiter, Sarah, or Microsoft, as distinguished from a common noun, which is a noun that refers to a class of entities (city, planet, person, corporation) and may be used when referring to instances of a specific class (a city, another planet, these persons, our corporation).

My issue (apart from the illogical inconsistency, which is irritatingly mindless enough) is about implication and undertone. When I see the word "White" capitalised mid-sentence (which I do occasionally - like White supremacy for instance), to me at least it has clear negative connotations. The word is being capitalised to draw attention to its exclusionary nature and thus divisiveness. There's a not insignificant risk that the same implication would be made, were the norm to be that the word "Black" should be capitalised mid-sentence.

And I don't get it - why so dramatically highlight exclusionary differentiation on such a blatantly one-sided basis? What's the objective? Is the AP honestly meaning to imply that "Black" is the exact same class of distinguishing and separative descriptor as "Chinese"? Or "Russian"? Score one for harmony and integration... not.

Sorry, but this is just the white guilt and woke (non-)thinking pedal being pushed through the floor. It's a double standard, it's prejudicial, it's pernicious and it's yet another example of misplaced positive discrimination.

I thought the deal was to do our best to ensure that everyone was treated equally, regardless of race or culture?

[Skyweir]

Cant help but think this is yet again taking the AP out of context.

It precisely states .... to be applied when used in the context of race or culture big B would apply.

Big W applies equally in race and cultural contexts also.

Your educational qualifications (whatever they may be) nor your linguistic expertise (whatever that may be) are not in question nor under challenge.

[TheFallen]

Cant help but think this is yet again taking the AP out of context.

It precisely states .... to be applied when used in the context of race or culture big B would apply.

Big W applies equally in race and cultural contexts also.

Whut?

Have you actually read the article? Let me helpfully highlight the phrase in the AP's own words that's causing me issues.

NEW YORK (AP) - After changing its usage rules last month to capitalize the word "Black" when used in the context of race and culture, The Associated Press on Monday said it would not do the same for "white".

So, sorry but the AP categorically states that its view is that "big W" should NOT be applied equally when that word is used in race or cultural contexts. The word "not" is just a tad key there...

And the AP article then goes on with an attempted justification for this illogical double standard

Your educational qualifications (whatever they may be) nor your linguistic expertise (whatever that may be) are not in question nor under challenge.

Of course they're not. In this particular field, they're both self-evident and indisputable. Pronoun, my arse...

[Skyweir]

I have no claim to linguistic expertise

[TheFallen]

Your educational qualifications (whatever they may be) nor your linguistic expertise (whatever that may be) are not in question nor under challenge.

PS your last sentence would be significantly improved (nay, made correct) by the usage of a "neither... nor" construct. A hanging orphan "nor" such as I have helpfully highlighted is poor form indeed - and runs you straight into trouble in terms of deciding upon whether to use a subsequent negative or not. No charge...

(Couldn't resist).

[Skyweir]

meh

cheers I guess

[Avatar]

I think I either capitalise both or neither, possibly sometimes inconsistently.

I certainly don't have a problem with them saying that they will monitor how usage and thought evolves, because that's how regulations or whatever remain relevant.

It does seem inconsistent at first glance, however, what exactly is white culture? Surely we're not arguing that all whites have the same culture? And surely the AP would capitalise, for example, "Russian culture" which is surely white? (And surely different from "Italian" culture?)

Of course, this just leads into a different error, because as somebody who lives in Africa, I can categorically confirm than not all black people have the same culture either.

Instead, we talk about Zulu culture, (note the capital) and Xhosa culture, and Pedi culture, and Tswana culture, and... (You get the point...and that's just inside SA.)

So really, maybe what they should be talking about is "African-American" culture?

--A

[TheFallen]

Fully agreed, Av. So basically the AP in a fit of woke contortionism has managed to shove its head up its own ass... well done, chaps. Enjoy the view obtained by your frantic virtue-signalling.

If I put my mind to it, I could probably make a case for capitalising Black as being an inherently racist action solely in and of itself. I mean honestly - isn't that just typical white generalisation, eh? Refusing to bother seeing any individualism in various black cultures and just dismissively lumping them all together under the catch-all term "Black"? How contemptuous!

As you say, you wouldn't see that being done with Russian, Italian, French or Greek culture? Oh no no no, the distinction there is clearly worth making the effort to identify...

Fuckin' AP morons.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

That's a blatant misunderstanding of what capital-B Black means. Consider reading the first sentence of the AP article in question:

After changing its usage rules last month to capitalize the word “Black” when used in the context of race and culture, The Associated Press on Monday said it would not do the same for “white.”

"Black" is being acknowledged as a reference to a culture. Black is being capitalized in that context because it's a pronoun. That's it. Not complicated.

The word "black" in the context of race or culture is an adjective, not a pronoun. The only reason the AP wants to capitalize it is so that they can appear "woke", which is not a concern I have.

Incidentally, I did the article in its entirety. It was pointless.

[TheFallen]

The word "black" in the context of race or culture is an adjective, not a pronoun. The only reason the AP wants to capitalize it is so that they can appear "woke", which is not a concern I have.

A. I already said all that. Geez, sometimes I dunno why I even bother

B. It could legitimately be argued that "black" (or "Black" as AP would have it) may also be viewable as a noun in effective adjectival usage (as per engine room, hospital ship etc etc). Regardless, it is absolutely not ever a pronoun.

However that's an entirely irrelevant nicety and your (and my) point still stands.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

The word "black" in the context of race or culture is an adjective, not a pronoun.

A. I already said all that. Geez, sometimes I dunno why I even bother

B. It could legitimately be argued that "black" (or "Black" as AP would have it) may also be viewable as a noun in effective adjectival usage (as per engine room, hospital ship etc etc). Regardless, it is absolutely not ever a pronoun.

However that's an entirely irrelevant nicety and your (and my) point still stands.

I was agreeing with you, but I ran out of time to complete my post this morning and had to close it where I left it. You are the linguist here, not me.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

The word "black" in the context of race or culture is an adjective, not a pronoun.

A. I already said all that. Geez, sometimes I dunno why I even bother

B. It could legitimately be argued that "black" (or "Black" as AP would have it) may also be viewable as a noun in effective adjectival usage (as per engine room, hospital ship etc etc). Regardless, it is absolutely not ever a pronoun.

However that's an entirely irrelevant nicety and your (and my) point still stands.

I was agreeing with you, but I ran out of time to complete my post this morning and had to close it where I left it. You are the linguist here, not me.

And a cunning linguist at that......

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Apparently visiting national parks is now racist because not many non-white people visit them and it gives people a chance to "self-segregate". There is only one problem with that premise: no one is preventing non-white people from visiting national parks. That's okay, though--it won't be long before someone suggests that we should do away with national parks.