Is anyone disappointed in Runes?

[Usivius]

I believe that part of this negative perspective might be because we are reading these 'new' books one at a time with large gaps in between. Unlike almost all of us who likely read the first 2 TC chrons with all the books published.
Imagine reading The Wounded Land and stopping. 2 plus years go by ...
dang, even I would have been grubling becasue of the tone of that book. TC is a dick and Linden is whiny (not in Runes though, despite what others think) ...
I think it's only because we take TWL in the context of the whole series is it loved more. We were able to get to the second book right away and continue the story...

Yes, there are some who say that SRD's use of language has changed, but I for one do not see it as worse or better. I have read all he has done and they all captivate in different ways. Runes in no different. There is a visceral poetry to this first story that is so beautiful and tragic that it makes me want to weep. There are so many wonderful characters with heart-wrenching motivations and needs that I find myself absorbed in them as much as I was with TC in my earlier days (---nowadays when I read the first chrons, I am disgusted by TC's 'pussyness' .... but understand that it is a necessary part of his character for growth. By the 2nd Chrons, he has grown and is less a prick, but stubborn to a noble resolve.)

OK, I have ambled as I usually do. But I would just urge the doubters to relax.... it's SRD!

Runes is the first, and there are so many absolutley juicy bits in this gem of a novel! So many hints at things to come! And great characters!

I for one can't wait for Fatal Revenant ... as my joy of Runes will utterly spill forth into the pages of FR!

[wayfriend]

Imagine reading The Wounded Land and stopping. 2 plus years go by ...

Unfortunately, I recollect this perfectly, without need of any imagination.

Yes, there are some who say that SRD's use of language has changed, but I for one do not see it as worse or better.

It may be changed with respect to Chronicles, but it is part and parcel with the Gap and Man Who. Which many people enjoy.

ROTE cannot help but be held up next to the earlier Chronicles. On it's own, it may be considered great. Among SRDs other works, it is more of a kind. It's only by this comparison that it seems to suffer.

Expectation plays such a role.

[burgs]

It wasn't too bad, waiting for the Second Chronicles. There was approx a year between each, if I remember correctly.

The twenty-one year wait for the Last Chrons was the killer for me. Sheer agony.

[kevinswatch]

I for one can't wait for Fatal Revenant

Well, I don't think you'll find anyone who would disagree with you on that point.

That still doesn't mean that some of us can't think that Runes was a bland, boring, cesspool of mediocrity, though. Heh.

And hey, that's not to say that there isn't anything I liked about Runes. There was Esmer. And...Esmer. And, um, give me a minute. -jay

[High Lord Tolkien]

I for one can't wait for Fatal Revenant

Well, I don't think you'll find anyone who would disagree with you on that point.

That still doesn't mean that some of us can't think that Runes was a bland, boring, cesspool of mediocrity, though. Heh.

And hey, that's not to say that there isn't anything I liked about Runes. There was Esmer. And...Esmer. And, um, give me a minute. -jay

You forgot the best part in the beginning: *BANG* *BANG*!

[Relayer]

You forgot the best part in the beginning: *BANG* *BANG*!

Yes, but since we're going to remain in the Land for the next 3 books, that should provide no hope. You'll still be stuck w/ Linden forever...

Imagine reading The Wounded Land and stopping. 2 plus years go by ...

Unfortunately, I recollect this perfectly, without need of any imagination.

So do I. I read the first 4 books straight through. TWL was published about the time I started TPTP; my buddies would go off into the other room to talk about it and would come back with these knowing grins about what was to come. By the time TOT and especially WGW were published, I was a different person and at first they were much harder to get through (especially WGW).

The wait for Runes was no big deal for me, as I never expected it to happen. And as Wayfriend said, our expectations play such a huge role in our appreciation (or disdain) of the new books. Almost all of us read TCTC so long ago and are very different from who we were back then.

Yes, there are some who say that SRD's use of language has changed, but I for one do not see it as worse or better. I have read all he has done and they all captivate in different ways. Runes in no different. There is a visceral poetry to this first story that is so beautiful and tragic that it makes me want to weep. There are so many wonderful characters with heart-wrenching motivations and needs that I find myself absorbed in them as much as I was with TC in my earlier days...

But I am much more intellectually engaged in the work than I was before. So where perhaps the sense of awe and "magic" is gone, it's replaced by the intellectual engagement.

These 2 pretty much sum it up for me, except to say that the thing that captivated me back in the day wasn't TC... for the most part I really didn't care what happened to him personally until somewhere in TWL. I remember hating that his story in TPTP kept interrupting Mhoram's, and only cared that TC would do something to try to save the Land. What truly enchanted me was the Land itself -- Earthpower? Aliantha? Ranyhyn? -- and the beauty and honor in the way the people revered the Earth and each other.

[duchess of malfi]

As I have said before in many other threads in this forum - of all of SRD's books, Runes (at least to me) is the most similar to Mirror of her Dreams. Both of those books are a very careful setting of characters, time, and place. I think that the next book/s in the Final Chrons will explode into action, just as A Man Rides Through does following the very careful setting up of the story in Mirror.

I am expecting nuclear blasts (or the equivalent) of action in the remainder of the series, if Mordant's Need is anything to go by.

[burgs]

the thing that captivated me back in the day wasn't TC... for the most part I really didn't care what happened to him personally until somewhere in TWL. I remember hating that his story in TPTP kept interrupting Mhoram's, and only cared that TC would do something to try to save the Land. What truly enchanted me was the Land itself -- Earthpower? Aliantha? Ranyhyn? -- and the beauty and honor in the way the people revered the Earth and each other.

Perfectly stated, and that's why I was captivated with the books as well. I thought of Covenant much as I think of House (for those who watch the show). A necessary evil.

As Relayer says, I didn't start to give a fly until TWL. Now - perhaps TC is more likeable and the books more accesible because Linden's around. We certainly aren't in love with the Land - we cry for it. That should give THOOLAH somthing to think about.

[dlbpharmd]

Imagine reading The Wounded Land and stopping. 2 plus years go by ...

Unfortunately, I recollect this perfectly, without need of any imagination.

So do I. I remember seeing TOT in hardcover in the bookstore but not being able to afford it, and having to wait another year for paperback. Now THAT was torture!

[Ard Rhys]

As I've already said, it's not the wait that made me crazy about Runes. It's not the years between volumes that bothers me about Runes. It's not the action -- or lack thereof -- that bothers me about Runes (a prologue shouldn't have massive amounts of action). It is not the story that bothers me about Runes.

It is the prose that bothers me about Runes. It is a faded, shadowy reflection of what came before in the series and I think that more than anything is what bothers most who didn't like Runes as much as they were hoping to. The change in style is undeniable and inarguable if you break the sentences and paragraphs down into their components. Those components do not line up with what SRD wrote before. Sad, sad, sad.

But I will read Revenant. And keep my fingers crossed. I know it won't match the prose he had before, but maybe it will be better than Runes.

[burgs]

SRD has admitted that he's a different writer, so we know that the prose is different.

The question, I think, is what else about the story is different, and is that clouding our judgement?

In the 1st Chrons, we loved: the Ranyhyn, aliantha, the Land, the Lords, all who gave of themselves to the Land, the Oath of Peace, the general innocence of everyone, Lord Mhoram's victory...etc. We were impassioned by love.

In the 2nd Chrons, we *hated* what Foul had done to the Land that we grew to love, THOOLAH hated Linden's overbearing perspective, the loss of the Giants, the arrogance (surquedry - sp?) of the Elohim. We were impassioned by loathing.

In the Last Chrons: SRD has always spoken of the "stakes" in a story. Very simply put, we don't know what the stakes are yet, so we don't know what to be impassioned by. SRD has flooded the Land with mysteries, much more so than before - perhaps this has something to do (most certainly, I should say) with the work he put in on his mystery novels. We don't know what to feel about Esmer, yet, although most of us think he's a dick. We feel pity for Anele. We are intrigued by the Mahdoubt. THOOLAH hates Linden and her indecision.

Let's hope that in FR, SRD provides us with material that will evoke passion.

[Farm Ur-Ted]

So do I. I remember seeing TOT in hardcover in the bookstore but not being able to afford it, and having to wait another year for paperback. Now THAT was torture!

My Mom was pissed at me, but I made her buy me the hardback copy of White Gold Wielder when it first came out.

[Relayer]

As Relayer says, I didn't start to give a fly until TWL. Now - perhaps TC is more likeable and the books more accesible because Linden's around. We certainly aren't in love with the Land - we cry for it. That should give THOOLAH somthing to think about.

Ah, but we cry for the Land because we DO still love it. The few glimpses we get of the "true" Land become even more poignant because of it. When Linden first uses hurtloam, when she regains her healthsense again in the mountains, when she uses the Staff in Revelstone, even when we see it second-hand thru Liand... I just yearn for more.

In the Last Chrons: SRD has always spoken of the "stakes" in a story. Very simply put, we don't know what the stakes are yet, so we don't know what to be impassioned by. SRD has flooded the Land with mysteries, much more so than before - perhaps this has something to do (most certainly, I should say) with the work he put in on his mystery novels. We don't know what to feel about Esmer, yet, although most of us think he's a dick. We feel pity for Anele. We are intrigued by the Mahdoubt. THOOLAH hates Linden and her indecision.

Good points. And even at a higher level we don't know what's going on, where we mostly have in the previous Chronicles. What's Foul really up to?

The stakes seem to be the Land, and/or Jeremiah. But we don't really know anything about him, haven't had the opportunity in Runes to develop any feelings (love or hate) for him. So far, he's just a cipher... and a mantra Linden recites (to the endless chagrin of THOOLAH ).

[Zarathustra]

It is the prose that bothers me about Runes. It is a faded, shadowy reflection of what came before in the series and I think that more than anything is what bothers most who didn't like Runes as much as they were hoping to. The change in style is undeniable and inarguable if you break the sentences and paragraphs down into their components. Those components do not line up with what SRD wrote before. Sad, sad, sad.

Maybe you could provide examples? Why don't you break thsoe sentences and paragraphs down, and show us what you mean? I simply do not agree. I think his writing is (paradoxically) tighter, while at the same time slower in pace. Aside from that difference, I think his sentence structure has actually improved. Gone are the numerous clunky similes. However, what was good about his older prose is still there. The magic has always been in how he handles characters, not in how he constructs sentences. At 14, I could see that. His writing was "closer" to his characters than any other writing I could find. Everything they did seemed significant, and that was something that awed me--a teenager who felt utterly insignificant . . . but wanting significance desperately.

[burgs]

I think his writing is (paradoxically) tighter, while at the same time slower in pace. Aside from that difference, I think his sentence structure has actually improved. Gone are the numerous clunky similes.

I agree, Malik. I used to be very frustrated by his prose - the clunky similes as you put it. Sometimes he would show us something, and then tell us about it too. I'm not saying that he was a bad writer, just that every writer has flaws.

If the Prologue is any indication of what his prose will reflect once all of the major players are together and the "stakes" clear, I can't wait. That was the best writing I've ever seen from him.

It's possible that we think we're not seeing him at his best yet because of the earlier point I made - what's at stake isn't clear yet. In the Prologue, the stakes were extremely clear.

[kevinswatch]

We feel pity for Anele.

Although I have no pity for Anele, heh. He's just annoying.

But that was a good post, burgs. A lot of interesting points.

It has been a while since I last read the first two Chronicles, so it's hard for me to remember exactly what emotions it brought out in me. But when I try to remember, I never really remembered feeling that much emotion over the Land itself. Personally, I seem to always be more interested in the character development. The story.

I still remember that TPTP was the most powerful book in the series that I read, the one that I enjoyed the most, simply because of the huge emotional things happening to Covenant the character.

Really, I just want Pitchwife to return. If Pitchwife comes back, the Last Chronicles would immediately rule. Pitchwife is the man. Heh.

I'm apparently a very simple person, heh.

But hey, like I said before, I have faith in SRD. He's not my favorite author for no reason. I still think TC and the Gap are some of the most well written and powerful stories I've ever read.

And burgs, just so you know in case you don't understand my sense of humor, but most of this THOOLAH stuff is tongue-in-cheek. I just want to make sure I make that clear every so often, so people don't get offended, heh.-jay

[burgs]

And burgs, just so you know in case you don't understand my sense of humor, but most of this THOOLAH stuff is tongue-in-cheek. I just want to make sure I make that clear every so often, so people don't get offended, heh.-jay

I'm having fun with it - definitely not offended. Although I'm VERY interested to see the final results of the poll. You misogynists...

What stands out most to me, of all of the TC books, and likely all of SRDs books, is the chapter "Lord Mhoram's Victory". People have compared it to Gandalf fighting the Balrog - that's simply not true. Gandalf and the Balrog were of the same order; the Balrog(s) twisted by Morgoth. Gandalf knew what he was up against, knew that he might be equal to the task (more than likely was).

Mhoram had no idea, and no reason to believe that he was up to the task of fighting Satansfist (? - again, appropriate names are eluding me tonight, if nothing else), yet with unbridled and unrivaled couraged he rode against him. I think that's one of the finest chapters in all of fantasy, frankly. It moved me like no other.

[Chasmys]

I'll posit a possible reason for the muted emotional impact that some have noted -- it's the Linden POV.

Covenant feels deeply, and his POV reflects that. The early story is about his numbness, his fear of it, and his fear of losing it. The very nature of such a story calls for some very intense scenes, and the nature of Covenant himself means that he will inhabit such scenes very intensely. Likewise with all of Covenant's externalized sub-creations (Mhoram, Foamfollower, the Caamora, etc.)

Linden just isn't like that. And so far, her story hasn't been about that. It's all been about powerlessness and inaction.

But think about it. Perhaps the nature of her story is about to change. She is a very emotionally guarded person. Perhaps stunted is a better word.

Let's inventory her "loved ones". First, she is forced to watch as her father kills himself. Next, she kills her own mother. Third, she falls in love with a man she knows for a fact is dead. Fourth, and aiming for absolute symmetry, she loves a child she knows cannot answer in kind.

The latter cases are telling, because unlike parents, they represent more active choices. And the Chosen, it turns out, chooses loves that in any rational world, cannot possibly hurt her: a dead man, and a vegetable. Her strongest feelings are just complicated forms of averting personal risk.

Well, duh. Of course she has a muted, almost detached response to what should otherwise be emotional scenes. She's wrapped herself in her protective chrysalis. As readers trapped in her POV, we're watching a movie through a giant wad of cotton -- symbolized by Kevin's dirt.

If only she would pay attention to those parts of her externalized unconscious (Mahdoubt) that are trying to warn her of the dangers of such defenses. Because in a magical world, dead men and vegetables have a special capacity for... harm.

With the return of Covenant himself, and the potential for Linden to allow herself to risk real feelings, I am predicting a change in the emotional impact of the text.

What I am saying is that SRD is in control of the tools his craft, and I trust him.

[Usivius]

[Cameraman Jenn]

Chasymys, brilliant post!