Kevin's Watch

danlo wrote:

TV Guide (remember them?) in regards to this season's finale wrote:Charles Widmore told John Locke that a war would take place on the island, and that if John didn't return, the wrong side was going to win. We're still a little unclear on who -- and when -- the sides will be (Hostiles vs. Dharma; Oceanic 6 vs. creepy Ajira survivors; Smokey vs. everyone), but it's clear that tensions are mounting all over, and will probably culminate in at least one shocking season-ending death. Other intriguing tidbits: The finale will introduce us to Jacob, the island's spiritual leader, and we'll see a wedding that takes place off-island. Thump!

Wedding? Des and Penny, before Desmond returns to the island for the final season? One would think with all the buildup around him he has to return at some point before the end for some reason, no?

sindatur wrote:Wedding? Des and Penny, before Desmond returns to the island for the final season? One would think with all the buildup around him he has to return at some point before the end for some reason, no?

Hmm. Maybe the gist of Desmond and Penny marrying is the eventual (or sooner) inheritance of the Widmore estate, and strong encouragement through Desmond to leave the island the frell alone.

I can't think of any other reason that Desmond would want to become involved with the island again.

Some people criticize LOST for campy acting, but last night was the best acting I've ever seen on the show. "Follow the Leader" (with "The Incident" being the finale) had a little bit of everything and everyone was there, or mentioned. Jughead, secret passages, a bunch of things from the past all of a sudden making sense. Man seeing John, Ben and Richard working together blew my mind-if that's not enough John tells Richard to cut the bullet out his own time displaced self's leg, Miles sees himself as a baby, Claire running off with her Mum, Chang's mind is blown...I'm just getting started...Kill Jacob, blow up the island, Phil hates closets...the Temple...

Yes, Great show last night! My only complaint was that noticibly some plot details "just happened" without explanation nor consequences. (For example, we see Kate leave for the Initiative, next time we see her she's in the sub. How'd that happen?" Or: how is it that Richard just happens to have a compass he got fifty years ago in his pocket at the right time?) For the first time, I feel like some things were just skimmed over, with no sense that they'll be explained later on.

Closing the time loop for the whole compass thing was sweet. But it's all wrapped up with no explanation of the signficance of the compass. But interesting anyway - the compass seems to be a "mobius object" - it has no beginning and no end.

Lastly ... I had a weird premonition. That Jacob is Jack, whose been stuck on the island thirty years. It just came to be out of the blue. I noticed the name similarity afterwards.

And now Locke is going to kill him.

And we have more heiroglyphics.

wayfriend wrote:Yes, Great show last night! My only complaint was that noticibly some plot details "just happened" without explanation nor consequences. (For example, we see Kate leave for the Initiative, next time we see her she's in the sub. How'd that happen?" Or: how is it that Richard just happens to have a compass he got fifty years ago in his pocket at the right time?) For the first time, I feel like some things were just skimmed over, with no sense that they'll be explained later on.

Closing the time loop for the whole compass thing was sweet. But it's all wrapped up with no explanation of the signficance of the compass. But interesting anyway - the compass seems to be a "mobius object" - it has no beginning and no end.

Lastly ... I had a weird premonition. That Jacob is Jack, whose been stuck on the island thirty years. It just came to be out of the blue. I noticed the name similarity afterwards.

And now Locke is going to kill him.

And we have more heiroglyphics.

Eh...Richard's a strange one, he may indeed always carry the compass in his pocket for just the right moment (or maybe when John gave it to him, he specified it would be needed, I'll have to rewatch the beginning of the season to see what exactly was said).

Jack and John are both the same name, and since the first sighting of Jacob, many have suspected John would be revealed to be Jacob (People even did side by side comparisons of profiles, even though it was obviously a different actor). So, based upon the similarity of the name, Jacob could be either one.

danlo wrote:...Claire running off with her Mum...

I missed seeing Claire last night? Or did you mean Charlotte?

Yes I meant Charlotte the redhead. The Kate thing didn't bother me.

Oooh...I just had a terrible thought, if Jack does succeed in rewinding the timeline, and the plane never crashes, not only would the dirt nappers from Flight815 be alive again to finish their lives, as well as reversing all the personal growth everyone has experienced, Locke will lose his legs and Rose will die of her cancer

Next week is going to be fantastic.

Unless there's more time travel, Jacob can't be Jack. In 1977, Richard tells Charles that he was told by Jacob to heal young Ben. I don't think the Others would accept Jack as Jacob, a person who already existed.

I don't think there is a physical Jacob that can be killed. I thought Locke was simply reversing the tables on Ben, a la, last season when Ben calmly told Locke he would move the island as "Christian" told Locke to do in Cabin Fever. Locke gets a little too much satisfaction from baiting Ben.

I think what Locke means to do by bringing all those people to see Jacob is to remove (kill) the Jacob illusion, and show everyone that Jacob is the island, and not a corporeal person. At least, that's what he believes he's going to do. Ben and Richard don't like this idea--or they think it's not in the best interest of the island.

To me, Ben knew exactly what Locke meant, and that threatens Ben's belief structure, which is to insulate the island from "mere mortals." But Ben has never seen Jacob, and the skeptic expects skepticism. Locke has and wants the people to know. The believer expects belief. The question is knowledge or ignorance; which one is right?

Then again, I could be wrong. But I'll be severely disappointed if Locke has an actual physical fight to the death with Jacob. A fight with Smokey is another matter.

ItisWritten wrote:Unless there's more time travel, Jacob can't be Jack. In 1977, Richard tells Charles that he was told by Jacob to heal young Ben. I don't think the Others would accept Jack as Jacob, a person who already existed.

I don't think there is a physical Jacob that can be killed. I thought Locke was simply reversing the tables on Ben, a la, last season when Ben calmly told Locke he would move the island as "Christian" told Locke to do in Cabin Fever. Locke gets a little too much satisfaction from baiting Ben.

I think what Locke means to do by bringing all those people to see Jacob is to remove (kill) the Jacob illusion, and show everyone that Jacob is the island, and not a corporeal person. At least, that's what he believes he's going to do. Ben and Richard don't like this idea--or they think it's not in the best interest of the island.

To me, Ben knew exactly what Locke meant, and that threatens Ben's belief structure, which is to insulate the island from "mere mortals." But Ben has never seen Jacob, and the skeptic expects skepticism. Locke has and wants the people to know. The believer expects belief. The question is knowledge or ignorance; which one is right?

Then again, I could be wrong. But I'll be severely disappointed if Locke has an actual physical fight to the death with Jacob. A fight with Smokey is another matter.

Ya never know, Jacob and Smokey may be the same thing/entity

I swear when they showed Jacob the first time in the cabin (quick 4-8 frame shot of a grizzled looking man) they were indicating Ben was actually seeing him

sindatur wrote:I swear when they showed Jacob the first time in the cabin (quick 4-8 frame shot of a grizzled looking man) they were indicating Ben was actually seeing him

Actually, I thought that was from Locke's perspective. Up to that moment, he saw Ben talking to an empty chair, the movement in the room and Ben manhandling no one as a Wizard of Oz trick. Then he saw the image and heard "Help me."

In Follow the Leader, Ben said to Richard, "Why do you think I've been trying to kill him?" If Locke is sensitive (re: crazy) enough to hear and believe in the island, he's a threat. When Locke told Ben he'd never seen Jacob, did Ben say he had? IIRC, he didn't, or at least not convincingly.

ItisWritten wrote:

sindatur wrote:I swear when they showed Jacob the first time in the cabin (quick 4-8 frame shot of a grizzled looking man) they were indicating Ben was actually seeing him

Actually, I thought that was from Locke's perspective. Up to that moment, he saw Ben talking to an empty chair, the movement in the room and Ben manhandling no one as a Wizard of Oz trick. Then he saw the image and heard "Help me."

In Follow the Leader, Ben said to Richard, "Why do you think I've been trying to kill him?" If Locke is sensitive (re: crazy) enough to hear and believe in the island, he's a threat. When Locke told Ben he'd never seen Jacob, did Ben say he had? IIRC, he didn't, or at least not convincingly.

My apologies, I should have been more clear. Yes, I believe when the audience saw the quick glimpse, I agree that was Locke's perspective. However the way Ben was manhandling the chair And arguing with Jacob, it just seemed Ben knew exactly where Jacob was and definitely it seemed he heard Jacob when he was arguing with him, Jacob could've been standing in the corner for all Ben knew (although he may not have heard Locke being told "Help Me", or it may have been just surprise, that Locke had heard Jacob too.)

I definitely don't believe Ben can be trusted as far as he can be thrown, so the indication in Follow the Leader that Ben hasn't seen Jacob afterall, may be deception.

Way back when Ben took John to "see" Jacob the first time and during the "Help Me" scene, I froze the frame and saw the silhouette of Christian in the chair; i think I even mentioned it here. That's why I wasn't suprised when Christian starting popping up on the island talking to certain folks thereafter.

Now, that doesn't mean Jacob is Christian, or vice versa (unless the writers changed things), but I don't know what to think beyond that, expect Jacob is a disembodied spirt of some sort who changes from Christian to Walt to a horse on a seemlingly calculated whim.

So, anyway, I agree with Itis:

ItisWritten wrote:I think what Locke means to do by bringing all those people to see Jacob is to remove (kill) the Jacob illusion, and show everyone that Jacob is the island, and not a corporeal person. *snip*
To me, Ben knew exactly what Locke meant, and that threatens Ben's belief structure, which is to insulate the island from "mere mortals."

Entertainment Weekly recently had a rumor on who the actor who will be playing Jacob will be, and it is a new cast member entirely. Then again, it might be BS, and that actor has either not been hired at all, or will be in the episode as someone else. Next week will tell.

I suspect the wife will go into labor at 6:30 Wednesday night so that we won't be able to see it until after the baby is born. Oh well.

ItisWritten wrote:... and strong encouragement through Desmond to leave the island the frell alone.

A Scaper? Nice.

Syl wrote:

ItisWritten wrote:... and strong encouragement through Desmond to leave the island the frell alone.

A Scaper? Nice.

You should seek out the Farscape thread here and check out my last post there.

ItisWritten wrote:Unless there's more time travel, Jacob can't be Jack. In 1977, Richard tells Charles that he was told by Jacob to heal young Ben. I don't think the Others would accept Jack as Jacob, a person who already existed.

Doh!

Lostipedia posts these images as being "Jacob". Not sure if they're valid, as they're free to change the actor at any time.



The second one looks a lot like Jack to me.

wayfriend wrote:

ItisWritten wrote:Unless there's more time travel, Jacob can't be Jack. In 1977, Richard tells Charles that he was told by Jacob to heal young Ben. I don't think the Others would accept Jack as Jacob, a person who already existed.

Doh!

Lostipedia posts these images as being "Jacob". Not sure if they're valid, as they're free to change the actor at any time.



The second one looks a lot like Jack to me.

I don't recall having seen that second frame, I believe there were 8 frames in all, which I have seen many times when the episode first aired, but, maybe I just haven't seen it that close up, though.

It is an interesting thought, when you consider the Portugese guy from Penny's boat, who is almost a dead ringer for Matt Fox, Damon/Carlton claim they didn't mean anything by choosing that actor, but, I find it difficult to swallow they weren't at the very least messing with our heads, how could they not recognize the similarity?

www.imdb.com/name/nm0502653/

So, perhaps that was a clue of some kind, that may be connected?

WOW.