Pantheon 2.0 - Game Thread

[Bhakti]

Truly, Hedra, I do not know from where you get the nerve. Every attempt I am aware of, by me or others, to get so much as an opinion out of you has been answered by either silence or "Be careful of unforseen consequences." All the while, Yek kidnaps and tortures my followers, spreads plagues to me, and other things that he will certainly not admit to.

And now, he says he "will ravage every forest on the planet, spread plagues that will devastate all life, cripple and main [my] people, turn the earth into a blasted ruin, spread cancers into all life" unless I sacrifice my life to him. (But, being the pleasant deity he is, he retracted the part about also killing my son. What a guy!)

Your Law has nothing to say about any of that, so don't start preaching to me. I must wait for him to actually kill Zephyr, or all of Eiran!, before taking action, or you will act against me.

And now, you give us this:

Know this, too: I will not have the new Divine War spill into Magoddar, where my dwarrow children and Simjen's have already suffered enough. And any of you who believes he can attack Magoddar or its people will regret it.

This is what I've been saying all along. But you do not support such sentiments when I say them. Indeed, you are now threatening us!

[Xar]

Hedra Iren

We are saddened as well that it has come to this. You know it to be true that many gods have acted in peaceful ways and have restrained their efforts to city-building and developing a safe and prosperous world for their followers.

However, it has come to pass that one god decides that he is going to bully the rest of us. Is it so horrible that we decide to protect ourselves?

And what, if I may ask, is the difference between attacking Nor Yekith first, and having him attack you first? How do your intentions make your preemptive strike any different? Instead of having him attack first, you attack first yourselves? To defend yourselves from him, you would become like him? Will YOU explain to the widow, to the orphaned child, that yes, their husband and father died because you decided this was best, but at least it was for a good cause?

Nor Yekith attempts to blackmail my husband with the life of my son and you say nothing. Just because Yekith retracts the blackmail threat everything is fine?

The law is a powerful tool - no one denies that. But it only works if all follow it. It has been through personal experience that some gods state that no matter what law is agreed to, it will be mutated to suit the bully by the bully.

Perhaps if you had spoken sooner, this could have all been avoided. I know that Bhakti has been plagued for years by Nor Yekith's tyranny yet you remained silent. Why did you not speak then?

And where were you, Goddess of Wealth, when Magoddar burned and meteors killed countless dwarrow? Did you spend even one word of condolences for them? And now, contemplating an attack on Nor Yekith, do you even spend one thought for the innocents you will slaughter? For those in his realm who had no choice as to what to do with their lives, and who will be slain like many others when Adomorn's armies invade Nor Pupae "just to avoid Nor Yekith's invasion"?

I myself have looked for clarification on laws and was answered with silence. I, therefore, stopped asking.

After the plethora of threats that Nor Yekith has thrown around the Pantheon - so much so that they are no longer empty but true (otherwise Yek would not be a god of his word) - we believe in his promise of utter mutation of Eiran and you stand there in judgement of US???

Words are not crimes, Goddess of Wealth. Actions are. I do not judge you - yet; but should you attack Nor Yekith preemptively, as many of you appear to be interested in, then you WILL be nothing more than other Nor Yekiths, less subtle perhaps, believing themselves more righteous, but Nor Yekiths all the same.

You condemn us and make more threats that we will 'pay the consequences of our actions.'

I wonder where you condemnation is of the one god who began all of this - Nor Yektih.

You are like children preparing to beat up a wide-mouthed companion, and then pointing at him as the instigator when caught in the act! Nor Yekith's actions have been few; and I ask you: how many of you have not harmed each other on occasion? You spun a tornado around Argothoth's island, trapping his people; Astavyastataa Kadna sent his assassins to slay Maeror's prophet; Maeror invaded Melirelle's lands and obscured them; Bhakti created a spirit of love which FORCES love upon those it envelops; I could continue, but why bother? You ALL are at fault for actions that have harmed others. Some have offered apologies and withdrawn their actions; others haven't, but none have been condemned so strongly for it as Nor Yekith has. He threatens your child. Is this grounds enough to slay his people and destroy his lands? NO!

Truly, Hedra, I do not know from where you get the nerve. Every attempt I am aware of, by me or others, to get so much as an opinion out of you has been answered by either silence or "Be careful of unforseen consequences." All the while, Yek kidnaps and tortures my followers, spreads plagues to me, and other things that he will certainly not admit to.

Ah, God of Love, but did not both things happen long before I ascended? How dare you then raise those topics with me, as if I could have prevented them?

And now, he says he "will ravage every forest on the planet, spread plagues that will devastate all life, cripple and main [my] people, turn the earth into a blasted ruin, spread cancers into all life" unless I sacrifice my life to him. (But, being the pleasant deity he is, he retracted the part about also killing my son. What a guy!)

Your Law has nothing to say about any of that, so don't start preaching to me. I must wait for him to actually kill Zephyr, or all of Eiran!, before taking action, or you will act against me.

My Law says that words are NOT ENOUGH for punitive action. You may wish to disregard Law; that is your choice. But you will become just another Nor Yekith, and someday you will realize what you have done, the lives you have changed or snuffed away - not just lives of soldiers, but lives of children - and you will realize you have become that which you hated. Y

This is what I've been saying all along. But you do not support such sentiments when I say them. Indeed, you are now threatening us!

I threaten only those who intend to destroy Magoddar or draw it into war. And, God of Love, accepting and encouraging an attack on Nor Yekith's lands is NOT the same.

[Mistress Cathy]

And what, if I may ask, is the difference between attacking Nor Yekith first, and having him attack you first? How do your intentions make your preemptive strike any different? Instead of having him attack first, you attack first yourselves? To defend yourselves from him, you would become like him? Will YOU explain to the widow, to the orphaned child, that yes, their husband and father died because you decided this was best, but at least it was for a good cause?

Number one, I never said that I was going to attack him. Again, you have condemned an innocent being of wrong-doing.

Good cause??? I think keeping my people un-mutated is an excellent reason and far more than just a 'good cause' as you so blithely put it. How about your dwarrows? Do they choose to be mutated? You are quick to want to protect yours but if I want to protect mine I am no different than the bully of the block? This law is sounding more unfair by the minute.

And where were you, Goddess of Wealth, when Magoddar burned and meteors killed countless dwarrow? Did you spend even one word of condolences for them? And now, contemplating an attack on Nor Yekith, do you even spend one thought for the innocents you will slaughter? For those in his realm who had no choice as to what to do with their lives, and who will be slain like many others when Adomorn's armies invade Nor Pupae "just to avoid Nor Yekith's invasion"?

I noticed you have also been silent of accidents occurring all over Eiran however, I was always on hand to assist your husband in rebuilding. Just ask him! I offered to bless the houses of your people with food and supplies. Simjen instead asked for my power so that he could use it as he saw fit. I gave him my power happliy.

Do not think for an instant that I have turned my eyes away from the needs of all the people of Eiran. If I knew of a need, I offered to help. If I was asked for help, I gave it. I have been on hand for any who needed my help and I gave it gladly. You, on the other hand, have been asked openly and in private for counsel and have in many cases remained silent.

Words are not crimes, Goddess of Wealth. Actions are. I do not judge you - yet; but should you attack Nor Yekith preemptively, as many of you appear to be interested in, then you WILL be nothing more than other Nor Yekiths, less subtle perhaps, believing themselves more righteous, but Nor Yekiths all the same.

Had Nor's words been few, I could have easily ignored them. However, their frequency has been unsettling especially since Nor is convinced that his egocentric view of Eiran is the only game in town.

Yet you are condeming us for our words! None of us have taken any action against Nor Yekith but you stand there and berate us as if we did. According to you, words are not criminal but you point at the rest of the gods of the pantheon as the instigators and judge our words wrong. Where is that same judgement for Nor Yekith?

But again, I have never said I would strike. As a matter of fact, the only god who has said that he would preemptively strike is Lord Adomorn. I know of no other god preparing for war. I can speak for myself that my preparations are defensive, not offensive.

You are like children preparing to beat up a wide-mouthed companion, and then pointing at him as the instigator when caught in the act! Nor Yekith's actions have been few; and I ask you: how many of you have not harmed each other on occasion? You spun a tornado around Argothoth's island, trapping his people; Astavyastataa Kadna sent his assassins to slay Maeror's prophet; Maeror invaded Melirelle's lands and obscured them; Bhakti created a spirit of love which FORCES love upon those it envelops; I could continue, but why bother? You ALL are at fault for actions that have harmed others. Some have offered apologies and withdrawn their actions; others haven't, but none have been condemned so strongly for it as Nor Yekith has. He threatens your child. Is this grounds enough to slay his people and destroy his lands? NO!

I cannot believe my ears. You are defending Nor Yekith despite his never-ending threats! And again, I reiterate - I never claimed that I would destroy his lands - nor has any god other than Adomorn. Again, you are naming us all the instigators and ignoring the constant threats from one god.

However, even if we did, these are just words and according to you, words are no crime. Therefore, you berate us for our words alone. None of us have taken any action against Nor Yekith but you have condemned us as being wrong.

[Bhakti]

Hedra, if the best you can do against me is my elemental, then I am in a very good position. Yes, if, within the boundary of Shakari, anyone commits an act of violence against my Forest or followers, they are enveloped, and caused to Love my Forest and followers so that they will be unable to commit further acts of violence against them. Avoiding my FORCED Love is as easy as can be: do not commit acts of violence against Shakari or any follower within it. Anyone who has a problem with my moral stance on this issue can talk to the hand.

However, you seem to have greater knowledge of my elemental that I recall giving out. How is that? I find myself wondering what knowledge of Yek's acts against others you know that you are not sharing. You doubtless know of transgressions that we know nothing about, or only suspect but cannot prove, yet you remain silent. And when we do nothing but say he will not sign the Law you proposed, you call us the evil ones. Why do you never speak to him in the tone you use with us? Why are his actions and promises of destruction treated with respect?

And what, if I may ask, is the difference between attacking Nor Yekith first, and having him attack you first? How do your intentions make your preemptive strike any different? Instead of having him attack first, you attack first yourselves? To defend yourselves from him, you would become like him? Will YOU explain to the widow, to the orphaned child, that yes, their husband and father died because you decided this was best, but at least it was for a good cause?

The difference is that Yek will act to murder and mutate the world; while we must act to stop him from murdering and mutating the world. I have been trying to keep to myself, never acting in the lands of another; while Yek has acted in mine, and is going to murder and mutate the world. He has said so since the beginning, and now insists that I let him murder me so he can take my domains to make it easier for him. Can it be that you truly don't see a difference?

Words are not crimes, Goddess of Wealth.

That is not the case in all realms. I do not believe it should be the case here. Your Law is not my Law. If someone is intending to destroy my Forest and followers because I will not allow him to murder me and take my domains, then I have every right to act to prevent said destruction.

And now, contemplating an attack on Nor Yekith, do you even spend one thought for the innocents you will slaughter? For those in his realm who had no choice as to what to do with their lives,

Does the Law not exist to protect such innocents? Why is Yek allowed to do this to those who do not choose to follow him?

[I'm Murrin]

Some have already seen enough of my thoughts to know my position in this; I state it here so that it is known by all.
Should any god launch an attack against Nor Yekith, I will not oppose them, nor will I condemn their actions, for I know their minds in this and I know why they believe it should be done. But I will not join them in their action. I will not give my power to them for their attack. Like them, I oppose Nor Yekith; but I choose to follow a different path.

[Benito Alvarez]

And what, if I may ask, is the difference between attacking Nor Yekith first, and having him attack you first? How do your intentions make your preemptive strike any different? Instead of having him attack first, you attack first yourselves? To defend yourselves from him, you would become like him? Will YOU explain to the widow, to the orphaned child, that yes, their husband and father died because you decided this was best, but at least it was for a good cause?

The difference is in the long term goals of the attack. What is Nor's plan for the world. Think for a moment on what he has said from the very begining.

Since his first words on Eiran he has claimed that only HE can make the world a paradise, that only HE can rule the world.

What are my long term goals? To stop Nor, and let the world be as it would.

See the difference now?

And where were you, Goddess of Wealth, when Magoddar burned and meteors killed countless dwarrow? Did you spend even one word of condolences for them? And now, contemplating an attack on Nor Yekith, do you even spend one thought for the innocents you will slaughter? For those in his realm who had no choice as to what to do with their lives, and who will be slain like many others when Adomorn's armies invade Nor Pupae "just to avoid Nor Yekith's invasion"?

You are quick to throw around insulting questions, for a Goddess of Law and Order, Iren. Are you not supposed to be one of level head?

To ancwer, what of OUR widows and orphans? Should we allow our own peoples to be killed simply to avoid the grit and horrible act of War? Do we sacrifice ourselves to stop War? It is a noble philosophy, to be sure, but one that I for one, am NOT strong enough to hold.

Words are not crimes, Goddess of Wealth. Actions are. I do not judge you - yet; but should you attack Nor Yekith preemptively, as many of you appear to be interested in, then you WILL be nothing more than other Nor Yekiths, less subtle perhaps, believing themselves more righteous, but Nor Yekiths all the same.

I agree, words of themselves, are not crimes. However actions, as you said, are. And I am begining to see YOUR actions Hedra Iren. Everytime that Nor Yekith has made direct actions against the World or any member of the Pantheon you are always behind him, ready to support his actions and make him immune to any recourse. YOU are there, not taking a middle ground that the Law requires, but the firtst to give Nor an out.

I am wondering what YOUR actions mean.

You are like children preparing to beat up a wide-mouthed companion, and then pointing at him as the instigator when caught in the act! Nor Yekith's actions have been few; and I ask you: how many of you have not harmed each other on occasion? You spun a tornado around Argothoth's island, trapping his people; Astavyastataa Kadna sent his assassins to slay Maeror's prophet; Maeror invaded Melirelle's lands and obscured them; Bhakti created a spirit of love which FORCES love upon those it envelops; I could continue, but why bother? You ALL are at fault for actions that have harmed others. Some have offered apologies and withdrawn their actions; others haven't, but none have been condemned so strongly for it as Nor Yekith has. He threatens your child. Is this grounds enough to slay his people and destroy his lands? NO!

You are correct, we have all had both unseen and seen consequneces to our actions. But I ask, what are our motives to these actions? I stated earlier what MINE are and what Nor's are. We have both been open to the Pantheon about our motives. I cannot speak for the rest of the Pantheon, but except for Argothoth, none of these actions have had consequences to the world AS A WHOLE.

Nor has taken over a third of an ENTIRE CONTINENT in ONE month.

Need I say where his actions point?

My Law says that words are NOT ENOUGH for punitive action. You may wish to disregard Law; that is your choice. But you will become just another Nor Yekith, and someday you will realize what you have done, the lives you have changed or snuffed away - not just lives of soldiers, but lives of children - and you will realize you have become that which you hated.

It is beneath a goddess of Law and Order to throw out stupid insulting comments like this.

I threaten only those who intend to destroy Magoddar or draw it into war. And, God of Love, accepting and encouraging an attack on Nor Yekith's lands is NOT the same.

So.

You have abandoned your post in the events of the World? You have left Law and Order to, what? The Fates?

I make my judgement now.

Hedra Iren, by my authority you are stripped of your holy title of Keeper of the Law. You are unfit to rule over anyone in THIS world, much less to keep the peace and Order that you SAY you serve.

As the Arbiter of Justice, I give you your reward for protecting the only enemy of Eiran that we have, and then abandoning your post in the world.

You are no longer the highest authourity of anything, much less the Law itself.

[Xar]

Hedra Iren

Hedra, if the best you can do against me is my elemental, then I am in a very good position. Yes, if, within the boundary of Shakari, anyone commits an act of violence against my Forest or followers, they are enveloped, and caused to Love my Forest and followers so that they will be unable to commit further acts of violence against them. Avoiding my FORCED Love is as easy as can be: do not commit acts of violence against Shakari or any follower within it. Anyone who has a problem with my moral stance on this issue can talk to the hand.

Let me rephrase the question then: how does that make you different from Nor Yekith? You have a weapon just like he has; you could unleash your spirit on others just as he could his mutagens. If you believe you are entitled to ensure that Nor Yekith does not threaten your people, then why should he, or anyone else for that matter, not do the same?

However, you seem to have greater knowledge of my elemental that I recall giving out. How is that? I find myself wondering what knowledge of Yek's acts against others you know that you are not sharing. You doubtless know of transgressions that we know nothing about, or only suspect but cannot prove, yet you remain silent. And when we do nothing but say he will not sign the Law you proposed, you call us the evil ones. Why do you never speak to him in the tone you use with us? Why are his actions and promises of destruction treated with respect?

Again you speak of words and words and words, God of Love... I know things because it is my role, as the goddess of Knowledge; I have not been idle since I rose to power. Yes, I know many things; I know of transgressions almost all of you have performed upon your followers, or the followers and lands of others. And many of those transgressions have been heinous! But if I were to reveal all of them, the world would be plunged in a war that would destroy it, and so I remain silent, unless the wronged party asks for a ruling. You can say this is the easy way out; you can even say this is not Law. But I am the custodian of the Law of Eiran, and when the wronged party does NOT speak, I can only do so much without revealing my knowledge. And if I did reveal my knowledge of transgressions, then I would have to reveal ALL. Are the gods of Eiran willing to hear what each and every one of them has done to his followers or others?

And what, if I may ask, is the difference between attacking Nor Yekith first, and having him attack you first? How do your intentions make your preemptive strike any different? Instead of having him attack first, you attack first yourselves? To defend yourselves from him, you would become like him? Will YOU explain to the widow, to the orphaned child, that yes, their husband and father died because you decided this was best, but at least it was for a good cause?

The difference is that Yek will act to murder and mutate the world; while we must act to stop him from murdering and mutating the world. I have been trying to keep to myself, never acting in the lands of another; while Yek has acted in mine, and is going to murder and mutate the world. He has said so since the beginning, and now insists that I let him murder me so he can take my domains to make it easier for him. Can it be that you truly don't see a difference?

I don't see a difference, God of Love. I told you that Law requests defense, not preemptive strikes; you have refused this idea, and though neither you nor Jove mentioned attacking Nor Yekith, you railed against the idea of only being able to defend your people. SO perhaps you won't attack him; but you are endorsing the right of those who will. And if you do, if you loan your power to the attacker, even, in order to ensure SHakari's survival, you ARE no better than Nor Yekith. To strike at him, you will slaughter innocents, or you will be a partecipant in the slaughter - for even if you do not send your people yourself, offering your power or even just watching without doing anything or saying anything against an attack IS being an accomplice.

Words are not crimes, Goddess of Wealth.

That is not the case in all realms. I do not believe it should be the case here. Your Law is not my Law. If someone is intending to destroy my Forest and followers because I will not allow him to murder me and take my domains, then I have every right to act to prevent said destruction.

And where does one draw the line? Adomorn wants to attack Nor Yekith; why shouldn't Not Yekith have the right to prevent this attack? Because he threatened others? Astavyastataa Kadna did just as much: did anyone attack him in retaliation? He sent his people to slay Maeror's prophet; did anyone attack him for that?

And now, contemplating an attack on Nor Yekith, do you even spend one thought for the innocents you will slaughter? For those in his realm who had no choice as to what to do with their lives,

Does the Law not exist to protect such innocents? Why is Yek allowed to do this to those who do not choose to follow him?

Those who chose not to follow Nor Yekith left his lands long ago. But I speak of those who have no choice as to whether to go to war or not; and the children of these people, and of the soldiers. And of the widows. And of the old ones.

Very well. With each word, God of Love, you simply reveal that which I already knew - that you do not care about what you think is a weak and ineffective Law. So be it. This weak and ineffective Law then will retreat in Magoddar and leave you all to destroy each other, for even if you do not attack and Adomorn does, do you truly believe Nor Yekith will only retaliate against Adomorn in turn? And if Nor Yekith attacks your people, will you not fight in turn?

You have abandoned your post in the events of the World? You have left Law and Order to, what? The Fates?

I make my judgement now.

Hedra Iren, by my authority you are stripped of your holy title of Keeper of the Law. You are unfit to rule over anyone in THIS world, much less to keep the peace and Order that you SAY you serve.

As the Arbiter of Justice, I give you your reward for protecting the only enemy of Eiran that we have, and then abandoning your post in the world.

You are no longer the highest authourity of anything, much less the Law itself.

I have left Law and Order, says the god who is willing to break the Law he is sworn to uphold? The god who openly speaks of breaking his own nature? I have protected no one; I have striven to avoid the harm which will come to the people of Eiran. I have seen far too much suffering, and now the circle is closed and suffering returns.

I have no doubt gods like Bhakti and Jove will heed your words; but it does not matter. If I do not believe Bhakti to be the god of love, that does not make love any less real; and by the same token, believing me not to be the Keeper of the Law will not make the Law go away.

Mark my words: when this Divine War comes to an end, you will all have the blood of innocents on your hands, no matter what side you are on.

But now I have spoken enough. Believe of me what you will; I frankly do not care anymore. But I reiterate my warning: those who enter in Magoddar with hostile intent, no matter who they are, will find that I am neither weak nor slow to act. And tell your people, all of you, that Magoddar will welcome refugees who wish to escape from the coming storm, but that any who believe they can attempt to attack Magoddar from within will be dealt with.

And I give you one last warning: I will not offer nor give any help to any of you who breaks the Law, be it Nor Yekith, Adomorn, you, Jove or any other. Those who forsake Law have no right to call upon it afterwards.

[Mistress Cathy]

Hedra, you did not address my concerns.

Why are you so willing to condemn the words of the Pantheon gods and yet ignore the threats from Nor Yekith?

In your last statement to Bhakti, you admit that Nor Yekith will not stop with Adomorn. That shows me that you are aware of his intent yet you remain silent.

Has Bhakti or I done anything differently than you have just now? You have retreated into your home and will defend it. Why is it so wrong for us to do the same. We also want to live in peace and protect our followers. We are not aggressors.

You have remained silent through all of the threats and verbal battles between Bhakti and Nor Yekith.

You are also strangely silent with Argothoth's raising millions of undead when other gods expressed concerns.

Why are you so biased? Isn't the law supposed to be blind and fair to all?

I will then, repeat what words you have used Hedra for if they are good for you, then they are good for us all.

Those who enter Landir with hostile intent, no matter who they are, will find that I am neither weak nor slow to act. Those seeking refuge are welcome in my cities and will be protected.

[Norn]

Those who forsake Law have no right to call upon it afterwards.

When has calling upon the Law availed any of us? You were raised to divinity as Guardian of Natural Order, yet Nor Yekith stands against nature as it is at every opportunity, seeking to mutate all Eiran according to his own private vision though few others desire it. You were raised to divinity as Guardian of Law, yet although in many societies it is illegal to continuously threaten and intimidate another, you have done little more than wring your hands and issue pious warnings against war.

Your Law has benefitted none but Nor Yekith himself Hedra Iren. You are as much his crony as Melirelle every was.

[Argothoth]

You are also strangely silent with Argothoth's raising millions of undead when other gods expressed concerns.

sister, only one million... at the moment....

[Xar]

Why are you so willing to condemn the words of the Pantheon gods and yet ignore the threats from Nor Yekith?

When the god of justice speaks of breaking Law, you would have me silent? When I am called into question and told I am ineffective, would you have me silent? I condemned NO ONE until I was called into question.

In your last statement to Bhakti, you admit that Nor Yekith will not stop with Adomorn. That shows me that you are aware of his intent yet you remain silent.

Should I reveal all I know of everyone, then? You will not like it, Goddess of Wealth. None will.

Has Bhakti or I done anything differently than you have just now? You have retreated into your home and will defend it. Why is it so wrong for us to do the same. We also want to live in peace and protect our followers. We are not aggressors.

Is he who endorses an aggression any less to blame? And do you not endorse Adomorn's future war? I have not judged anyone - yet. But the temptation is strong, and that is why I choose to retire into Magoddar.

You have remained silent through all of the threats and verbal battles between Bhakti and Nor Yekith.

And since when did Bhakti need my help in a verbal battle against Nor Yekith?

You are also strangely silent with Argothoth's raising millions of undead when other gods expressed concerns.

Yes, other gods expressed concern. And thus far, I stayed silent. Does it mean I would have remained silent forever? Or that I was waiting - or consulting the Law? Do you presume you know?

Why are you so biased? Isn't the law supposed to be blind and fair to all?

The Law of Eiran is fair to the PEOPLE OF EIRAN! I have a duty and an obligation to them - and if preventing a Divine War is the best way to discharge that obligation, that is what I will do.

When has calling upon the Law availed any of us? You were raised to divinity as Guardian of Natural Order, yet Nor Yekith stands against nature as it is at every opportunity, seeking to mutate all Eiran according to his own private vision though few others desire it. You were raised to divinity as Guardian of Law, yet although in many societies it is illegal to continuously threaten and intimidate another, you have done little more than wring your hands and issue pious warnings against war.

I am not the goddess of Nature, but the Goddess of Law. Nature has its own champion now. And I find it deeply bitter that you, of all deities, is so quick to dismiss my attempts at ensuring a war does not start. You, like me, have seen the devastation of the first Divine War. And yet, would you be willing to bring such devastation to your people, if there were even the slightest chance to defuse it?

Your Law has benefitted none but Nor Yekith himself Hedra Iren. You are as much his crony as Melirelle every was.

If my Law has served to give the people of Eiran at least one more season of peace before the war you all seem to thirst for explodes, it will have served its purpose. And when the war is over and most of Eiran lies in ruins, victorious or not, think of your words this day and remember I tried to do all I could to save lives from both sides, and I was forsaken by both sides.

[Simjen]

A sticky predicament we have here, isn't it?

I must admit, I share a measure of... not culpability or responsibility, but... something. When I sought to raise Hedra Iren to godhood, I thought she would be a foil against... again, I lack the words... not my enemies, exactly, but against the machinations of those whose purposes might be at odds with mine. Hedra has taught me much, and among the greatest lessons was the folly of this line of thought. Law must suit all or none. It cannot be bent or swayed to one side, no matter how righteous one may be, even if in their own mind.

If a god came to me and asked that fire not burn their followers, I may offer what blessing I can, but I cannot make fire be other than what it is. And as the wicked and the good alike die in a burning house, neither can law choose with whom to side. Many a foul blade has been forged on Eiran, yet there is little I can do against this. I don't get to decide who holds the weapon. Nor does law get to decide who holds the better claim.

In Hedra's choice to withdraw, I think the gods on both sides of the divide have their wish. As for myself, I will follow my good wife's counsel and remain neutral (and welcome the fires that come with this position), seeing to the defenses of my people.

In times of war, though, the forges ring the loudest. My services will still be available to those who seek them. But other than my craft, I can offer nothing that is not defensive in nature. And if no god of a particular side chooses to seek my services, that is no fault of mine.

Be warned, though. Much has gone into the defense of the dwarrow. Anyone who tries to meddle in the affairs of Magoddar will find a blackened stump where their reach once extended.

[O-gon-cho]

You are like children preparing to beat up a wide-mouthed companion, and then pointing at him as the instigator when caught in the act! Nor Yekith's actions have been few; and I ask you: how many of you have not harmed each other on occasion? You spun a tornado around Argothoth's island, trapping his people; Astavyastataa Kadna sent his assassins to slay Maeror's prophet; Maeror invaded Melirelle's lands and obscured them; Bhakti created a spirit of love which FORCES love upon those it envelops; I could continue, but why bother? You ALL are at fault for actions that have harmed others. Some have offered apologies and withdrawn their actions; others haven't, but none have been condemned so strongly for it as Nor Yekith has.

Again you speak of words and words and words, God of Love... I know things because it is my role, as the goddess of Knowledge; I have not been idle since I rose to power. Yes, I know many things; I know of transgressions almost all of you have performed upon your followers, or the followers and lands of others. And many of those transgressions have been heinous! But if I were to reveal all of them, the world would be plunged in a war that would destroy it, and so I remain silent, unless the wronged party asks for a ruling. You can say this is the easy way out; you can even say this is not Law. But I am the custodian of the Law of Eiran, and when the wronged party does NOT speak, I can only do so much without revealing my knowledge. And if I did reveal my knowledge of transgressions, then I would have to reveal ALL. Are the gods of Eiran willing to hear what each and every one of them has done to his followers or others?

:::meekly raising hand:::

m'lady, may I ask you to contact me regarding these actions I have done that have harmed others? For I truly remember none, and would wish to offer reparations for those I must have done, if what you say is sooth.

Should I reveal all I know of everyone, then? You will not like it, Goddess of Wealth. None will.

I ask not of anyone else, sister. Simply of my own transgressions. Privately, if I am wrong in my own assesment.

Some have already seen enough of my thoughts to know my position in this; I state it here so that it is known by all.
Should any god launch an attack against Nor Yekith, I will not oppose them, nor will I condemn their actions, for I know their minds in this and I know why they believe it should be done. But I will not join them in their action. I will not give my power to them for their attack. Like them, I oppose Nor Yekith; but I choose to follow a different path.

Well said, Sister/Brother. While I am undecided where I stand in all of this, should I choose against Nor Yekith, I would most likely take this stance.

[Benito Alvarez]

Hedra Iren, I feel your pain. Your sorrow. Your anger.

You lived in a time when few of us did, and survived. You have seen what Divine War can do. You know the horror of innocents being slaughtered while battle raged above and infront of them. Of screams and rain the color of blood. Monsters running into battle, and watching as the peoples try to fight back, and die. Walking on their comrades dead backs to fight and fall still.

I ask you, what is the alternative? For all the people to live under Nor and (I assume) Argothoths iron reign? For all these people to live as half mutants half undead? To watch as children are born under a blackened sky?

My fellow Pantheon members, we have come to a fork in the road. To both sides lie War. On one fork we have a few years before Nor and Argothoth are strong enough to ignore the penalties of breaking the Law. In the years before the inevitable attack we MAY be strong enough to survive, but are we all willing to gamble the world itself on such a course?

Then there is the other fork. One where we play it out now, for good or ill. However, down this fork my hands are tied. Under the Law as it stand I cannot start the agression. Should I attack my power would be hopelessly cut down, even IF I had the support of the Pantheon.

I have only one recourse. When Hedra Iren first came into power, we forsaw this EXACT problem. And we made a rule to solve it. We can change the Law, and rewrite it as the Pantheon sees fit. The Allfather decrees that a two thirds majority is enough to force Hedra Iren, under her own Law, to rewrite her book.



I will have this Pantheon come to order, and take the floor. As a member of this circle, I propose a vote to change the Law on when a war can be started.

"When a diety has made actions that change the world as a whole, or has visibly backed up claims to attack the world (representative by a simple majority of the Pantheon's lands) with either: 1) a direct use of DRP or 2) the forming of a military with size enough to carry out said actions, then it will be the option of each individual member of the Pantheon to declare War on said aggressive diety. This option will also extend to any allies of said agressive diety that is openly supporting said deities actions, either in DRP or military forces or in statements supporting the matter."

I am open to making edit's on this Law, but I think it is fine as it stands. Notice it says nothing of who the God is. It is as applicable to me as it is to anyone. It simply hold's the worlds intrests in mind.

[Benito Alvarez]

To keep track of the votes, I am making it a public matter. I have created a seperate thread to vote in.

Take your time, this is not a light matter.

[Simjen]

The trouble with choosing your words carefully is that so much can change by the time they're cast. *sigh*

My fellow gods, I must warn you of your tones towards my wife. As do the gods, so their people must follow. And as you should all be aware, the people of Magoddar do not have but one god. What affects Hedra's followers perfoce must affect my own.

Likewise, what affects Hedra Iren's honor reflects on my own. I will not abide insults to her person. Who here has not had reason to fault another god in the practice of their domain? If you disagree, so be it. But I expect your tone to be civil. I am slow to anger, but cross me... Any further insult will result in me withdrawing my blessings from the offending god's followers. Try to go to war without fire to lay siege or to cook your meals or weapons that won't hold their mettle.

And if your followers carry the insult to Eiran... neither Maeror nor Argothoth will be able to return their remnants to you.

[Mistress Cathy]

Simjen, I do have respect for you and Hedra Iren. More than you know. and I do not mean to be insulting, if I am being that. But there are questions that I feel need to be answered. I feel that I am being unjustly accused of starting war.

Hedra wrote:

When the god of justice speaks of breaking Law, you would have me silent? When I am called into question and told I am ineffective, would you have me silent? I condemned NO ONE until I was called into question.

Hedra, I would not have you silent when Nor Yekith speaks of destroying my husband Bhakti. Yet silent you were. I would not have had you silent when Malice had sworn to mutate all of Eiran - the people, the humans you claim to want to protect, yet again, silent you were.

Hedra wrote:

Should I reveal all I know of everyone, then? You will not like it, Goddess of Wealth. None will.

On this point, I will grant that I would not like to know. I have nothing to hide but I fear that what I see will horrify me.

Hedra wrote:

Is he who endorses an aggression any less to blame? And do you not endorse Adomorn's future war? I have not judged anyone - yet. But the temptation is strong, and that is why I choose to retire into Magoddar.

How have I endorsed it? Where did I once say that I endorsed his war?

Hedra wrote:

And since when did Bhakti need my help in a verbal battle against Nor Yekith?

That is why I have remained silent as well between Nor Yekith's threats. But what we have now is the same thing - threats being hurled around by different gods yet only now do you speak up.

Why is that? You who apparently see everything suddenly needs to speak up. What is it that you are not telling us? You must have thought that war was not imminent then but it is now. Is that correct?

Hedra wrote:

Yes, other gods expressed concern. And thus far, I stayed silent. Does it mean I would have remained silent forever? Or that I was waiting - or consulting the Law? Do you presume you know?

No, I do not presume to know. That is why I ask these questions. Surely if the law is righteous then it should be able to withstand questioning, correct?

Hedra wrote:

The Law of Eiran is fair to the PEOPLE OF EIRAN! I have a duty and an obligation to them - and if preventing a Divine War is the best way to discharge that obligation, that is what I will do.

See my reply above. Why have you said nothing of Nor Yekith's promise to make Eiran into his own personal paradise when it runs contrary to everyone elses. Perhaps even yours?

Hedra wrote:

I am not the goddess of Nature, but the Goddess of Law. Nature has its own champion now. And I find it deeply bitter that you, of all deities, is so quick to dismiss my attempts at ensuring a war does not start. You, like me, have seen the devastation of the first Divine War. And yet, would you be willing to bring such devastation to your people, if there were even the slightest chance to defuse it?

Hedra, understand that we would LOVE to diffuse it. We have all obeyed the law to the best of our abilities. The problem is that there are those in the Pantheon who will not and do not care about the law. I know that all of us would welcome a chance to ensure that a war does not start.

How, as the keeper of the law, can you ensure that the agreement of all the parties will not be broken? What punishment will there be? Will punishment be in time to keep the death of war at bay? Or the mutation of war at bay?



Argothoth wrote:

sister, only one million... at the moment....

Sorry, one million. But.... there will be more??????

[Bhakti]

Ah, God of Love, but did not both things happen long before I ascended? How dare you then raise those topics with me, as if I could have prevented them?

IF your Law is not concerned with those who committed crimes in the past making restitution for them, it should at least look to the past to see what behavior we can expect from someone in the future. Yek has done X, Y, and Z. Now, he says he will murder and mutate the world. Is there reason to believe he will murder and mutate? Well, he did do X, Y, and Z...

Let me rephrase the question then: how does that make you different from Nor Yekith? You have a weapon just like he has; you could unleash your spirit on others just as he could his mutagens. If you believe you are entitled to ensure that Nor Yekith does not threaten your people, then why should he, or anyone else for that matter, not do the same?

What makes me different is in how I say I will use my weapon, and in whether or not my past behavior has given you reason to believe I will use it that way. I have created an elemental that prevents those who have committed violence against Shakari or my followers within Shakari from committing more violence against them. Yek has created mutagens and diseases, and he has stated his intentions for them - he will murder and mutate the world.

I don't see a difference, God of Love. I told you that Law requests defense, not preemptive strikes; you have refused this idea,

I have refused the idea that the Law you speak for is sufficient. And again:

My Law says that words are NOT ENOUGH for punitive action. You may wish to disregard Law; that is your choice.

Why can you not write into your book that certain types of words can be against the Law? Specific threats. Perhaps even general threats that we can reasonably expect to be carried out. If a threat that breaks this Law is made, and someone points it out, they offender has a certain amount of time to take the Oath of the Allfather that s/he will not carry it out.

for even if you do not send your people yourself, offering your power or even just watching without doing anything or saying anything against an attack IS being an accomplice.

Are you, Hedra, aware of anything that any deity has created that serves no purpose other than to destroy the world, or to force that deity's view onto those who do not want it? When such a thing is launched onto the world, will you be an accomplice? I am sure you will say not, but I disagree.

Those who chose not to follow Nor Yekith left his lands long ago.

There may have been some who got away. But we have Yek's own word that he forced his Mutations on those who did not want it.

How, as the keeper of the law, can you ensure that the agreement of all the parties will not be broken?

But, my Love, Yek will never agree to anything that forces him to not mutate and/or murder Eiran. Malice must be Malicious. It is how he gets power. He has sometimes said he is willing to discuss matters. It makes him look non-aggressive. Yet, whenever the discussion comes down to everybody wanting everybody to leave everybody else's lands and followers alone, he backs out. There will be no agreement of all the parties, because his goal is to force his will onto all of Eiran.

[Injerian Praetus II]

I must admit, I share a measure of... not culpability or responsibility, but... something. When I sought to raise Hedra Iren to godhood, I thought she would be a foil against... again, I lack the words... not my enemies, exactly, but against the machinations of those whose purposes might be at odds with mine. Hedra has taught me much, and among the greatest lessons was the folly of this line of thought. Law must suit all or none. It cannot be bent or swayed to one side, no matter how righteous one may be, even if in their own mind.

Well said, Master of Smiths. I believe in this wholeheartedly, and it shames me deeply that I may have instigated others to break the Law. Hedra Iren, you have my apologies and my assurance that I will stand strong to ensure that we all defend the Law.

[Benito Alvarez]

Well said, Master of Smiths. I believe in this wholeheartedly, and it shames me deeply that I may have instigated others to break the Law. Hedra Iren, you have my apologies and my assurance that I will stand strong to ensure that we all defend the Law.

Water will flow uphill. Black is White.

No matter how you say it, Nor, you cannot change the truth. You will "stand with the Law" as long as it ties my hands against you and others like you.