Ken Burns Civil War

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Post by duchess of malfi »

sgtnull wrote:have you covered Andersonville?
We saw some of the pictures from Andersonville today in the second episode of disc 4 and they made both of us cry. I think more in depth coverage will have to wait until both of us are a bit older. :wink:

One thing we have both been enjoying is reading some of Walt Whitman's poetry in conjunction with the documentary and the history books. It shows what a strong effect the war had on someone who did not fight in it. Whitman was too old to serve in the Union army so he volunteered as a nurse in Union military hospitals in Washington. Given the primitive state of medicine and surgery in those days, all too often nursing consisted of giving comfort to the dying and trying to ease their pain. A sensitive and compassionate man, Whitman was changed forever by the suffering he witnessed and attempted to ease.

xroads.virginia.edu/~CAP/hospital/whitman.htm

The Wound Dresser
1

AN old man bending I come among new faces,
Years looking backward resuming in answer to children,
Come tell us old man, as from young men and maidens that love me,
(Arous’d and angry, I’d thought to beat the alarum, and urge relentless war,
But soon my fingers fail’d me, my face droop’d and I resign’d myself,
To sit by the wounded and soothe them, or silently watch the dead;)
Years hence of these scenes, of these furious passions, these chances,
Of unsurpass’d heroes (was one side so brave? the other was equally brave;)
Now be witness again, paint the mightiest armies of earth,
Of those armies so rapid so wondrous what saw you to tell us?
What stays with you latest and deepest? of curious panics,
Of hard-fought engagements or sieges tremendous what deepest remains?

2

O maidens and young men I love and that love me,
What you ask of my days those the strangest and sudden your talking recalls,
Soldier alert I arrive after a long march cover’d with sweat and dust,
In the nick of time I come, plunge in the fight, loudly shout in the rush of successful charge,
Enter the captur’d works—yet lo, like a swift-running river they fade,
Pass and are gone they fade—I dwell not on soldiers’ perils or soldiers’ joys
(Both I remember well—many the hardships, few the joys, yet I was content).

But in silence, in dreams’ projections,
While the world of gain and appearance and mirth goes on,
So soon what is over forgotten, and waves wash the imprints off the sand,
With hinged knees returning I enter the doors (while for you up there,
Whoever you are, follow without noise and be of strong heart).

Bearing the bandages, water and sponge,
Straight and swift to my wounded I go,
Where they lie on the ground after the battle brought in,
Where their priceless blood reddens the grass, the ground,
Or to the rows of the hospital tent, or under the roof’d hospital,
To the long rows of cots up and down each side I return,
To each and all one after another I draw near, not one do I miss,
An attendant follows holding a tray, he carries a refuse pail,
Soon to be fill’d with clotted rags and blood, emptied, and fill’d again.

I onward go, I stop,
With hinged knees and steady hand to dress wounds,
I am firm with each, the pangs are sharp yet unavoidable,
One turns to me his appealing eyes—poor boy! I never knew you,
Yet I think I could not refuse this moment to die for you, if that would save you.

3

On, on I go, (open doors of time! open hospital doors!)
The crush’d head I dress (poor crazed hand tear not the bandage away),
The neck of the cavalry-man with the bullet through and through I examine,
Hard the breathing rattles, quite glazed already the eye, yet life struggles hard
(Come sweet death! be persuaded O beautiful death!
In mercy come quickly).

From the stump of the arm, the amputated hand,
I undo the clotted lint, remove the slough, wash off the matter and blood,
Back on his pillow the soldier bends with curv’d neck and side-falling head,
His eyes are closed, his face is pale, he dares not look on the bloody stump,
And has not yet look’d on it.

I dress a wound in the side, deep, deep,
But a day or two more, for see the frame all wasted and sinking,
And the yellow-blue countenance see.
I dress the perforated shoulder, the foot with the bullet-wound,
Cleanse the one with a gnawing and putrid gangrene, so sickening, so offensive,
While the attendant stands behind aside me holding the tray and pail.

I am faithful, I do not give out,
The fractur’d thigh, the knee, the wound in the abdomen,
These and more I dress with impassive hand (yet deep in my breast a fire, a burning flame).

4

Thus in silence in dreams’ projections,
Returning, resuming, I thread my way through the hospitals,
The hurt and wounded I pacify with soothing hand,
I sit by the restless all the dark night, some are so young,
Some suffer so much, I recall the experience sweet and sad,
(Many a soldier’s loving arms about this neck have cross’d and rested,
Many a soldier’s kiss dwells on these bearded lips).
Love as thou wilt.

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Post by sgt.null »

excellent post. powerful poetry.
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Post by duchess of malfi »

We finished it up today. What a wonderful series! :) 8)

One of these days I will have to watch his series on jazz and on baseball. :)
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Post by dlbpharmd »

I'm very glad that you both watched and enjoyed this series!

Have either of you seen Gettysburg? It is by far the best Civil War movie ever made. It's based on the Pulitzer Prize winning novel by Michael Shaara.
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Post by duchess of malfi »

I have not seen it, though I have read the three Civil War novels by the Shaaras. :) In fact, I am having my son reading Gods and Generals right now as a supplement to the history books. Shaara gets his history facts straight, treats men on both sides with respect, and gets inside their heads quite well. :)

How gross is the Gettysburg movie? I have a problem with gore, and my son is bit on the young side for really bloody icky stuff... :? I have long wanted to watch the Denzel Washington movie Glory but some of my friends told me it's pretty bad on the blood-o-meter... :?
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Post by dlbpharmd »

The opening minutes of Glory are intense (Matthew Broderick's character watches in horror as a man's head explodes from an artillery barrage; a few minutes later, he watches a soldier scream in agony as his leg is surgically amputated.) Gettysburg has realistic battle depictions but is not as gory.

Gettysburg is historically accurate, but Glory plays a little loose with the details at times.

In spite of all of the criticism, Gods and Generals is a good movie also.
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Post by duchess of malfi »

Ah, you have confirmed what my friends said about the nasty goriness of Glory. :( But maybe I will give Gettysburg a try.

How did they even film Gods and Generals, given how much of that book was set in exploring the thoughts of the various men? :? I avoided that movie because I wasn't sure how well that would transfer to film. :? (One of my big doubts about any possible TCTC movies as well). :?
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Post by dlbpharmd »

Through monologues and dialogues, which was probably the biggest reason why the film flopped (that and the fact that it's 4 hours long - sad how short the American attention span is.) No one can fault the historical accuracy or the great battle scenes (G&G has the only film depictions ever of the Battles of Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville.) But when Stonewall Jackson speaks for 2 minutes in the King's English - well, people tend to fall asleep.
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Post by duchess of malfi »

I do not think I would mind the length or the dialogs. Especially if I am watching it on dvd, and can hit the pause button for a potty break or to get a snack or a drink of water. :wink:

Any movie that long is vexing to me in a movie theater, though. :wink:

Perhaps I will give that oen a try as well. :)
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Post by dlbpharmd »

I think you'll enjoy them! I look forward to your comments.
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Post by duchess of malfi »

My son and I watched the first half of Gettysburg today. I spend the day with him, and then go to work for second shift. He got up early and did his history and literature work, so there was some extra time today so we thought we would watch the film. We freaked out that it was over four hours long 8O (literally not enough time in the day today to watch the whole thing) , so decided to watch half today and half the next history day. 8)

Well, the halfway point was in the middle of Little Round Top, so we waited for that to be over. Professor Chamberlain and his brave Maine Yankees deserved that. :wink: :D

So far we are enjoying. :)

Jeff Daniels is doing a good job as Chamberlain. 8) You know, I have enjoyed his acting very much in both of the historic dramas I have seen him in (he was also very good as Washington in The Crossing). I wish he could be in a few more serious roles like those instead of doing so many fart movies. :( Fart movies probably earn more money and pay more bills, though. :roll:

I think tonight I will have to dig out our family history records. My husband's ancestors from Kentucky served in the Union Army of the Cumberland, which I believe fought in Tennessee. My ancestors (from Virginia, Kentucky, and West Virginia) all served in various Virginia companies for the CSA (they all lived in the area where those three states come together, in Pike County, Kentucky, McDowell County, West Virginia, and Tazewell County, Virginia). I am curious now to see if any of my ancestors ended up with Lee's armies. My mother's grandfather's brother died in a Union prison camp when he was only 14 years old, so they would have probably been around fighting at some time or other in order for him to have been captured. :?

edited:
Did some research on my ancestors, looks like my direct ancestor served in the McDowell Partisan Rangers, Company C of the 34th Battalion of the Virginia Cavalry. That unit was attached to Jeb Stuart...so he would have most likely been at Gettysburg.

Now, my husband's direct ancestor was in the mounted infantry. And the Army of the Cumberland took part in all the fighting going down through TN to Atlanta, then marched with Sherman to the sea. :?

At least our ancestors never shot at each other. :wink: 8) :)

What is the difference between mounted infantry and the cavalry? :?
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Post by dlbpharmd »

You're right about Daniels, he's very good as Chamberlain. He reprises that role in Gods and Generals (although his appearance isn't consistent - several years pass between the filming of both movies. Nevertheless, it's a role he was born to play.)

Many military historians consider Gettysburg the most accurate war movie ever made (fake beards aside), and the depiction of the Battle of Little Round Top is often the reason why. It's absolutely heartbreaking to watch, isn't it?

As to the difference b/w mounted infantry and cavalry, I'll have to get back to you, as I don't know the answer off the top of my head. Stay tuned....
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Post by stonemaybe »

DLB wrote:
I have this on DVD (big surprise there!) and I absolutely love it. It is very accurate, well narrated, and the expert commentary is superb (I'm a huge fan of Shelby Foote.) Please keep me informed as you watch this, as I would love to hear your perspectives.
DLB could you send me details of this DVD set? My best mate back in Ireland is a civil war nut - he's gone over to see the sites and everything- and his birthday's coming up. Might be the perfect present for him.
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Post by duchess of malfi »

www.pbs.org/civilwar/film/

From the PBS website, which originally aired the series. :)
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Post by dlbpharmd »

This would make a great gift, Stone!
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Post by duchess of malfi »

We finished watching Gettysburg today, and it was just great. :D 8)

I googled around, and answered my own question.

My ancestors were in the CSA cavalry, so travelled and fought from horseback.

My hub's ancestors were Union mounted infantry, so travelled on horses, but fought from the ground.

I am sure that in reality, those distinctions would have been blurred a lot (if not most) of the time!

Hopefully we will get a chance to start Gods and Generals later this week. Since it is also a very long film, we will probably have to watch it in a couple of chunks as well. :(
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Post by dlbpharmd »

Glad you enjoyed it, and I hope you enjoy G&G as well. It was a critical and commercial flop, but still historically accurate.
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Post by duchess of malfi »

Well, my hub has been feeling so left out and sorry for himself because Steven and I are watching and enjoying all of these cool things without him, we are going to try to watch the whole thing (all 4 hours!! 8O ) on Saturday evening. :)

I will let you guys know how it goes, and if our bladders survive the experience. :wink: :lol:
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Post by duchess of malfi »

We've been taking our time with it and watching it bit by bit, but we are enjoying Gods and Generals. 8)

I think that possibly the reason it did not find an audience is that it has a lot of quiet, reflective scenes - and also a lot of action battle field scenes.

A lot of people prefer one or the other, and there is enough of both that the movie might have turned off prople who strongly prefer one or the other sort of scene.

Daniels shines once again as Chamberlain. The scene where he and his men are trapped on the battle field at night, and have to shelter under the bodies of their dead comrades from the continuing shooting was very effective.

I do not care for the actor who portrays Lee, though. :? He's a bit flat, and I have a hard time understanding why anyone would follow this little old white haired man with no personality onto a battlefield. :?
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Post by dlbpharmd »

Yeah, that's Robert Duvall, and I agree, he's not a good Lee (although in so many other roles, he's fantastic.) Reportedly, Duvall himself was very unhappy with his performance (and the editing) and said that if The Last Full Measure was ever filmed, he would not reprise his role as Lee.

Fake beard and all, Martin Sheen was a much, much better Lee.
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