Kevin's Watch

Given the way Sunder regularly sliced open his hand to provide blood to invoke the power of the Sunbane, I don't think there's anything especially revered about providing blood prior to buying the farm.

Also, the amount of blood matters. It took all of Marid's blood to raise some water and fruit for three people; when Sunder sliced his hand, it was about good for starting a fire.

Actually, Humans are 96% water, more or less. Full moon affects sleeping patterns in some people (even when they don't know it's Full Moon) and crime rates go up on Full Moon days.

Seems to me the Period of Time we are discussing should indeed flow heavier (in some manner, wether physical symptoms, body changes or mood/emotional changes) with the Sunbane enhancing the Changes of Nature.

And, I'm actually amazed SRD didn't use this Period of time in women to feed the Banefire in some manner, now that it's been pointed out. It could add to the seedy underbelly of The Clave in some politically dramatic ways

sindatur wrote:Actually, Humans are 96% water, more or less. Full moon affects sleeping patterns in some people (even when they don't know it's Full Moon) and crime rates go up on Full Moon days.

Seems to me the Period of Time we are discussing should indeed flow heavier (in some manner, wether physical symptoms, body changes or mood/emotional changes) with the Sunbane enhancing the Changes of Nature.

And, I'm actually amazed SRD didn't use this Period of time in women to feed the Banefire in some manner, now that it's been pointed out. It could add to the seedy underbelly of The Clave in some politically dramatic ways

Exactly.

Given how egalitarian the Land was in the time of the new Lords in terms of treating/seeing the sexes as equals, perverting the culture to make women into not much more than blood providing chattel would be right up Lord Foul's alley.

And depending on the woman (given that some have light periods and some heavy ones) she could provide a lot more blood during her menses than Sunder's hand cuts.

In fact that could be another way Foul could corrupt the culture - having the people selectively breed for women who have heavier periods. That could corrupt the beautiful way people came to marry in the time of the new Lords.

In fact he did manage to corrupt that anyway, in having the town council decide upon marriages (remember that Sunder was given a special privilege in being able to select his own first wife) - but can you imagine how terrible it would be for the women to be desirable only because of how heavy their periods would be - or for a man to be forced into marrying a woman he is not compatible with in any way or find attractive at all just because the council needs a husband for a woman who bleeds heavily at her menses?

I would think that could possibly really screw up relationships between the sexes, and the self images of the women in question. I cannot recall any woman in either of the chronicles with self image problems over looks, physicality, etc. (other than poor mad Lena wanting to remain young) - but this would be a way to really screw up girls if they are looked down upon for physical things (such as the rate of blood loss in their periods) that they have no control over (sort of like our society has a nearly impossible ideal of women being under healthy weights at size 0 which can help lead some vulnerable girls and women into eating disorders).

In fact, if Foul really wanted to screw things up, perhaps he could even get people to sacrifice an occasional infant boy, as they could be seen as less potentially valuable to the community as infant girls.

Sunbaneglasses wrote:I always wondered about womens cycles and the Sunbane. Lets just say I don't see the need for all the human sacrifices? You figure it out.

Well I think it is quite simple.. The Sunbane was a major evil which ruled the lives of the inhabitants of the Land. The Raver who was 'running' the Clave was making the Sunbane more powerful through a great deal of bloodshed and murder. The Ravers LIKE killing, so this is the path they followed.
What you are suggesting would require every female who menstruates to travel to Revelstone every month, from all over the land. It's just completely impractical - especially considering the Land is almost impossible to travel across due to the Sunbane.

ninjaboy wrote:

Sunbaneglasses wrote:I always wondered about womens cycles and the Sunbane. Lets just say I don't see the need for all the human sacrifices? You figure it out.

Well I think it is quite simple.. The Sunbane was a major evil which ruled the lives of the inhabitants of the Land. The Raver who was 'running' the Clave was making the Sunbane more powerful through a great deal of bloodshed and murder. The Ravers LIKE killing, so this is the path they followed.
What you are suggesting would require every female who menstruates to travel to Revelstone every month, from all over the land. It's just completely impractical - especially considering the Land is almost impossible to travel across due to the Sunbane.

They wouldn't need to make special trips if they were farmed.

You don't need to limit yourself to menstruation if you want to farm people for blood.

However, doing so would not be in line with the Clave's goal, which is wholesale slaughter of the people of the Land.

As a mechanical problem, too, I doubt that menstraul blood is 100% blood. What the actual composition is, I don't know, but what may appear to be more blood could actually be less.

It's been a while since I read The Wounded Land, and it's always been the most difficult book of the series to read, for me.

Just thinking out loud here, but I'm reminded of Cpt. Hook's sheer terror at the mention of the word 'croc'. Like Lord Foul might be terrified of the 'blood of the earth' - at Melenkurion Skywier.

Is it possible that the people of the Land had access to Skywier, and the Power of Command and it was the Clave's job to prevent them from reaching it by telling them so many lies? One in particular is the ghosts of Andelain. The people of the Land where terrified of a place really filled with an abundance of health and beauty.

Brown Mountain in the Appalachians of North Carolina comes to mind, where strange lights have been seen. The Cherokee indians might have been the first to see them.

It is interesting to note that Brown Mountain is composed largely of bright red 'cranberry' granite.
As is 'the blood of the earth' is another name for hematite.

wayfriend wrote:You don't need to limit yourself to menstruation if you want to farm people for blood.

However, doing so would not be in line with the Clave's goal, which is wholesale slaughter of the people of the Land.

As well as perverting into fear and horror all of the good things in life and the culture along the way to that wholesale slaughter.

What better way to make life a daily horror show than to use the basic biology of people against them to ruin their lives that much more?

(You would not have to go to Revelstone - just give the blood from menses or child birth to your local graveler - child birth can cause a LOT of blood).

In a second question (nothing to do with female biology) - would animal blood work in graveler and/or Clave blood magic?

While most animals would have been wiped out under the Sun Bane, you cannot convince me that a few villagers here and there would not have found ways to keep a few chickens or ducks (or whatever fowl they kept in the Land) alive for meat and eggs. People like meat and eggs too much to find a way not to have them (though I suppose Lord Foul would not mind a bit of cannibalism here and there). A few chickens could be kept in a stone floored hut and would not require TOO much food and water - and they would thrive under the sun of pestilence when they could gobble up grasshoppers and other bugs.


very minor third chronicles spoiler which does not include any major plot points:

Spoiler

and while I would think most larger livestock would die off quickly, the masters DID have horses by the time of the Third Chronicles. so some horses and other large animals must have survived on the edges of the Land somewhere...or perhaps in Andelain.

I'm starting to think that the people under the Sunbane wouldn't use menstrual blood anyway for religious purposes. Consider: the Clave taught them all that the Sunbane was the result of humanity angering the creator, and was punishment. Sacrificing their blood was a means of making atonement. Allegedly, if the Land sacrificed enough blood, The Sunbane could be arrested (or at least controled).

That's the key, I think. According to dogma, to make atonement, one had to sacrifice blood. Menstrual blood is a natural byproduct, and not a product of sacrifice. As a result, according to their dogma, it would be unfit to use against the Sunbane.

Of course, just because they believed a thing doesn't mean it was so, but belief was a strong influence on the people in the decesions the made.

Orlion wrote:I'm starting to think that the people under the Sunbane wouldn't use menstrual blood anyway for religious purposes. Consider: the Clave taught them all that the Sunbane was the result of humanity angering the creator, and was punishment. Sacrificing their blood was a means of making atonement. Allegedly, if the Land sacrificed enough blood, The Sunbane could be arrested (or at least controled).

That's the key, I think. According to dogma, to make atonement, one had to sacrifice blood. Menstrual blood is a natural byproduct, and not a product of sacrifice. As a result, according to their dogma, it would be unfit to use against the Sunbane.

Of course, just because they believed a thing doesn't mean it was so, but belief was a strong influence on the people in the decesions the made.

It would not be a result of violence, true enough, but it WOULD result in degradation of the women and take away any sense of privacy and self determination of the women.

Foul and the Ravers were not just about killing people - they were after destruction of peoples' spiritual lives as much as their physical lives. In fact, they were possibly more into degradation than they were into violence.

We don´t even know if the women in the Land menstruates the same way 'normal' women do.

It also struck me as odd, that the question of Lindens cycle never came up. As the duchess says: She is a sexually active woman in her childbaring years...
Why isn´t she worried? A short time after she begins her sexual relationship with TC she starts getting seasick? After how long on the sea? Stuff like that improves over time, it does not get worse!

Why not the sligthest thought of pregnantsy? And why no period...?

For some reason, this thread is starting to make me wonder about toilet paper.

I often wonder when I read, how peolple in the story goes to the loo... AND what they use for toiletpaper... I´m just funny that way...

I like the way, in some fantasies, how they say "to find relief" and "making mud". (and doesn't Simon step on a loo to get out a window in the beginning of The Dragonbone Chair? Or was that The Dragonbone Chair? LOL)

I wouldn't try clingor that's for sure...

Jody wrote:We don´t even know if the women in the Land menstruates the same way 'normal' women do.

It also struck me as odd, that the question of Lindens cycle never came up. As the duchess says: She is a sexually active woman in her childbaring years...
Why isn´t she worried? A short time after she begins her sexual relationship with TC she starts getting seasick? After how long on the sea? Stuff like that improves over time, it does not get worse!

Why not the sligthest thought of pregnantsy? And why no period...?

If these are important questions then Piers Anthony should be writing the Chrons, really.

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

Jody wrote:We don´t even know if the women in the Land menstruates the same way 'normal' women do.

It also struck me as odd, that the question of Lindens cycle never came up. As the duchess says: She is a sexually active woman in her childbaring years...
Why isn´t she worried? A short time after she begins her sexual relationship with TC she starts getting seasick? After how long on the sea? Stuff like that improves over time, it does not get worse!

Why not the sligthest thought of pregnantsy? And why no period...?

If these are important questions then Piers Anthony should be writing the Chrons, really.

I suspect that you might have understood why I said I was thinking about toilet paper thanks to this thread.

Vraith wrote:

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

Jody wrote:We don´t even know if the women in the Land menstruates the same way 'normal' women do.

It also struck me as odd, that the question of Lindens cycle never came up. As the duchess says: She is a sexually active woman in her childbaring years...
Why isn´t she worried? A short time after she begins her sexual relationship with TC she starts getting seasick? After how long on the sea? Stuff like that improves over time, it does not get worse!

Why not the sligthest thought of pregnantsy? And why no period...?

If these are important questions then Piers Anthony should be writing the Chrons, really.

I suspect that you might have understood why I said I was thinking about toilet paper thanks to this thread.

No, unless you were thinking the same thing as me, about going down to Florida and TP'ing Anthony's house one night. No real occasion, except to celebrate his recent turning in of a fecal sample for lab testing.

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote: No, unless you were thinking the same thing as me, about going down to Florida and TP'ing Anthony's house one night. No real occasion, except to celebrate his recent turning in of a fecal sample for lab testing.

"Are you thinking what I'm thinking, Pinky?"
"I think so Brain..."

I think most people in the land at the time of the sunbane would have chronic hemoroids due to the poor diet and stress!!!! wot a sourse of fresh blood!!! ' Bend over Gravelin and strain, we need a few rows of crop today.