Kevin's Watch

Avatar wrote:Opportunistic, greedy, works out to the same thing. Not to mention honesty in advertising. It was that "giving cards to the practically unemployed type of lending that the new Credit Act here is supposed to prevent.

--A

Unless the card was forced on them, I honestly don't think the bank is at fault. People take loans knowing full well their current situation. But I seriously doubt the bank is to blame for giving them loans. There's fine print in every loan that states it's the responsibility of those taking out the loan to manage their money.

I give up! *************************************************

I am in agreement that it isn't the banks' fault that people are accepting tempting credit card starter offers. The predatory practices come into play when they stage mini college credit card parties and give you freebies and little 'aren't you mature and smart for getting a credit card?' brochures, and give you a four line credit application that has seventeen pages of fine print hypercondensed onto the back of it, distracting you all the while from reading the boring stuff by offering you another soda.
Yes, they are doing nothing illegal, but I find it highly unethical, and quite irresponsible. So yes, shame on us for falling for those tactics, but shame on them for resorting to them to make big money off the hapless.

I'll beat Loremaster to the punch and state that if you look in the CC contract I'm sure you'll find that the company has the right not only to change their rate at any time, they have the right to change nearly any other rule within that agreement at any time. By law, any use of their card after you have been notified in writing of contract changes constitutes a binding acceptance of those changes, whether they seem fair or not. It sucks heartily, but the alternative is to stop using consumer bank credit cards.

To bring it back to Soulbiters original intent, I can assure you that one of the reasons that Capital One is raising their rates across the board is that too many sub-prime credit card holders charged up their cards and then defaulted. This is after their massive multiyear ad campaign has trailed off, which may mean their enrollment of new suckers isn't keeping their top line high enough to outpace the defaults. So, to keep shareholders happy, Capital One has no choice but to raise the standard rates for everyone to ensure they make up the money somewhere. This decision was probably not done in a vacuum - they are smart enough to realize that this is going to outrage and cause the loss of many good customers. But, they figure that the money will balance itself out from those that aren't paying attention.

SB, by the way, you do have the right to refuse the change in your rate. Doing so should immediately close the card to new charges and allow you to pay off the balance according to your existing rules (but likely with the new rate).
As the customer, you ultimately have the right to take your business elsewhere, even though it might take longer to end the relationship because of the time it takes to pay off whatever balance you are carrying. If enough Capital One customers hit the highway because of this, maybe that will alert them that maybe it wasn't OK to screw the customer. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one, though.

dw

Seareach wrote:I give up! *************************************************

I appear to have offended you again with my views. And I apologise. However, I believe I have the right to respond to Avatar and Dukkha. I am unaware of your situation, therefore any comment made by myself should not be seen to judge you. Further, my opinions are my own and I do not think, nor hope, that you should place any more credence to them than you would in the opinions of a stranger.

My apologies.

DukkhaWaynhim wrote: I'll beat Loremaster to the punch and state that if you look in the CC contract I'm sure you'll find that the company has the right not only to change their rate at any time, they have the right to change nearly any other rule within that agreement at any time. By law, any use of their card after you have been notified in writing of contract changes constitutes a binding acceptance of those changes, whether they seem fair or not. It sucks heartily, but the alternative is to stop using consumer bank credit cards.

Well said.

Loremaster wrote:

Seareach wrote:I give up! *************************************************

I appear to have offended you again with my views. And I apologise. However, I believe I have the right to respond to Avatar and Dukkha. I am unaware of your situation, therefore any comment made by myself should not be seen to judge you. Further, my opinions are my own and I do not think, nor hope, that you should place any more credence to them than you would in the opinions of a stranger.

My apologies.

You do have the right. I didn't say you didn't. You simply refused to argue your point with me...you said you disagreed with what I was saying, and now you say that you are unaware of my situation. <shrug> I am merely saying that in the position you are Lore (which, in my mind...and we're talking *financially* here...is a fortunate one in a relative sense to mine) means that perhaps you cannot see this argument from the pov of others who opt to borrow money.

Hey, all I know is that without credit, I would never have been able to afford a wife of my own. And, like credit, she was able to change the terms of our 'deal' whenever she liked, and was able to terminate the credit, even though I'm still paying long after my line of credit has expired, and will continue to pay for anothe 20 or so years. Thank God for credit!

dANdeLION wrote:Hey, all I know is that without credit, I would never have been able to afford a wife of my own. And, like credit, she was able to change the terms of our 'deal' whenever she liked, and was able to terminate the credit, even though I'm still paying long after my line of credit has expired, and will continue to pay for anothe 20 or so years. Thank God for credit!

Oh, thank god for you dAN! When you need a sane comment....

dAN, there are so many layers of sarcasm to that post, I think I might have to apprentice myself to you.

dw

Seareach wrote:You do have the right. I didn't say you didn't. You simply refused to argue your point with me...you said you disagreed with what I was saying, and now you say that you are unaware of my situation. <shrug> I am merely saying that in the position you are Lore (which, in my mind...and we're talking *financially* here...is a fortunate one in a relative sense to mine) means that perhaps you cannot see this argument from the pov of others who opt to borrow money.

On the contrary, I can see your point of view. However, I have no wish to debate this further with you for I know where it will head. That's not me lacking intellectual courage; it's simply both out of politeness and a sense of survival .

DukkhaWaynhim wrote:
To bring it back to Soulbiters original intent, I can assure you that one of the reasons that Capital One is raising their rates across the board is that too many sub-prime credit card holders charged up their cards and then defaulted. This is after their massive multiyear ad campaign has trailed off, which may mean their enrollment of new suckers isn't keeping their top line high enough to outpace the defaults. So, to keep shareholders happy, Capital One has no choice but to raise the standard rates for everyone to ensure they make up the money somewhere. This decision was probably not done in a vacuum - they are smart enough to realize that this is going to outrage and cause the loss of many good customers. But, they figure that the money will balance itself out from those that aren't paying attention.

SB, by the way, you do have the right to refuse the change in your rate. Doing so should immediately close the card to new charges and allow you to pay off the balance according to your existing rules (but likely with the new rate).
As the customer, you ultimately have the right to take your business elsewhere, even though it might take longer to end the relationship because of the time it takes to pay off whatever balance you are carrying. If enough Capital One customers hit the highway because of this, maybe that will alert them that maybe it wasn't OK to screw the customer. I wouldn't hold my breath on that one, though.

dw

Yep.. Im aware of it and rather than give them another penny of my money I will be moving it to another lower rate. However Im so fed up with this industry being able to use practices that were at one time considered 'Loan Sharking" and illegal, that I have decided to get rid of CCards.

But like I said.. Im lucky because I have great credit. I have a dang good job and make enough to just give them the thumb. But there are many many people out there that live 'hand to mouth'. Many of them can afford to keep their payments up at 7.9 or 5.9 or whatever their rate is but will be forced into default by the change in rates to double digits. Many wont qualify for another credit card..not because they have poor credit but because they dont make enough money and their debt to income ratio will keep them from changing. These are the people that are really getting screwed.

dANdeLION wrote:Hey, all I know is that without credit, I would never have been able to afford a wife of my own. And, like credit, she was able to change the terms of our 'deal' whenever she liked, and was able to terminate the credit, even though I'm still paying long after my line of credit has expired, and will continue to pay for anothe 20 or so years. Thank God for credit!

Loremaster wrote:I have no wish to debate this further with you for I know where it will head. That's not me lacking intellectual courage; it's simply both out of politeness and a sense of survival .

Do you: tell me, where's that. I'd go with the "lacking intellectual courage" option. This has nothing to do with politeness.

Seareach wrote:

Loremaster wrote:I have no wish to debate this further with you for I know where it will head. That's not me lacking intellectual courage; it's simply both out of politeness and a sense of survival .

Do you: tell me, where's that. I'd go with the "lacking intellectual courage" option. This has nothing to do with politeness.

I'm not sure what you mean.

Are you guys derailing my thread with some kind of personal disagreement? If so ... STOP!.. OK back to your regularly scheduled programming.

SoulBiter wrote:Are you guys derailing my thread with some kind of personal disagreement? If so ... STOP!.. OK back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Um...no... I was just trying to get him to state his point rather than dodging addressing my pov. <shrug> I'll stay out of it from now on.

SoulBiter wrote:Are you guys derailing my thread with some kind of personal disagreement? If so ... STOP!.. OK back to your regularly scheduled programming.

Sorry. Seareach and I have an argument almost every week. Our personalities don't mix well.

Seareach wrote:Um...no... I was just trying to get him to state his point rather than dodging addressing my pov. <shrug> I'll stay out of it from now on.

Despite the fact that I stated I didn't want to debate it with you? I would not want you to squander yourself on futile endeavours, Sea.

Oh SOD OFF Lore!

Seareach wrote:Oh SOD OFF Lore!