The Illearth War - Chap 26 Gallows Howe

[KaosArcana]

Did anyone other than Mhoram ever say to Covenant
"You are the white gold"?

I still don't buy that Covenant was the only one by rights who
could use the wild magic. I can think of about four reasons off
the top of my head why I don't believe this.

1. Troy is able to draw upon the power of the wild magic
with no trouble at all.

2. The ring was taken from him in TPTP and as a result the
krill began to burn with the green power of the Illearth Stone.
As Triock tells Covenant:

"Elena Foul-wife," -- he uttered the name with horror-- "now holds
the white gold. She is more the master's servant than any Raver.
In the hands of turiya or moksha, that power would
breed rebellion. With wild magic, any Raver would throw down the
master if eh could, and take a new seat in the thronehall of Ridjeck
Thome. But Elena will not rebel. She will not use the wild magic to
free herself. She has been commanded from the dead, and her
service is pure!"

Covenant did not give the ring to Elena. It was taken from him
when he was unconscious, and yet Triock says that not just
Covenant's daughter could wield the power-- if delivered into
the hands of a Raver, he too could use that force.

3. The Elohim don't call Covenant the wild magic-- they call him
ring-wielder. They expected the Sun-Sage and ring-wielder to be
one person. They said that Covenant's possession of the ring was
undeniable, but they don't call him the source of the wild magic.

4. Both Kasyren of the Gyre and Linden Avery were able to use the
wild magic: Kasryen was able to capture the wild magic and turn it
against Covenant, and Linden was able to seize bolts of wild magic
and use it as a shield in the Caverns of the One Tree. Later on, she
was able to actually STEAL power from the ring without Covenant's
consent as she did in White Gold Wielder.

[Han-shan]

Sorry danlo. Right you are. Kaos, this discussion fits very closely into the "Is The Land Real" thread on the TC forum. If you want to continue it (I sure hope so!), let's move there, ok?

***SPOILERS FOR TPTP AND THE 2ND CHRONICLES BELOW***
***SPOILERS FOR TPTP AND THE 2ND CHRONICLES BELOW***
***SPOILERS FOR TPTP AND THE 2ND CHRONICLES BELOW***
***SPOILERS FOR TPTP AND THE 2ND CHRONICLES BELOW***

Did anyone other than Mhoram ever say to Covenant "You are the white gold"?

Not to my knowledge. Is Mhoram's insight not sufficient for you? I'm having difficulty remembering a time that he was wrong about anything.

1. Troy is able to draw upon the power of the wild magic with no trouble at all.

Yes, because Covenant gave him the ring - gave him permission.

2. The ring was taken from him in TPTP and as a result the krill began to burn with the green power of the Illearth Stone.

??? I don't claim to remember everything that happened in the Land, but I don't think this happened. I remember the krill's gem glowing white with "echoes of wild magic" a couple of times, but never green. (And as a tangent, it would seem that bringing the krill "to life" means infusing it with such echoes. I think "echoes of wild magic" is a good way to think of it. How the Old Lords did even that much is beyond me, though the 6th Ward must tell. But it must have frustrated Kevin beyond belief to be able to do that much, yet not summon real wild magic!!)

As Triock tells Covenant:

"Elena Foul-wife," -- he uttered the name with horror-- "now holds the white gold. She is more the master's servant than any Raver. In the hands of turiya or moksha, that power would breed rebellion. With wild magic, any Raver would throw down the master if eh could, and take a new seat in the thronehall of Ridjeck Thome. But Elena will not rebel. She will not use the wild magic to free herself. She has been commanded from the dead, and her service is pure!"

Covenant did not give the ring to Elena. It was taken from him when he was unconscious, and yet Triock says that not just Covenant's daughter could wield the power-- if delivered into the hands of a Raver, he too could use that force.

In his dreams! Elena did not invoke the wild magic. She was planning to. Or, I would say, hoping to. But before she actually made the attempt, she was distracted, and then lost the ring and the Staff was destroyed. I do not believe she would have gotten a spark from it. I think Foul was using her to test the theory. If it worked, if it was proven that the wild magic could be invoked without the white gold having been freely given, he would have simply told her to give him the ring. If it didn't work, then Elena might have been harmed - even obliterated beyond the possibility of being summoned from the dead again - but Foul would have been safe.

3. The Elohim don't call Covenant the wild magic-- they call him ring-wielder. They expected the Sun-Sage and ring-wielder to be one person. They said that Covenant's possession of the ring was
undeniable, but they don't call him the source of the wild magic.

True enough. But, though the Elohim wanted the Sun-Sage and ring-wielder to be one, they did not take the ring from Covenant and give it to Linden. Perhaps they knew that such an action would be useless because the ring-wielder's consent was necessary.

4. Both Kasyren of the Gyre and Linden Avery were able to use the wild magic: Kasryen was able to capture the wild magic and turn it against Covenant, and Linden was able to seize bolts of wild magic and use it as a shield in the Caverns of the One Tree. Later on, she was able to actually STEAL power from the ring without Covenant's consent as she did in White Gold Wielder.

Two very different situations. We lack sufficient knowledge in too many areas to truly know how Kasreyn was able to manipulate the power that Covenant shot at him. Perhaps Covenant gives up his rights to any wild magic that he expells.

Linden, however, is another matter. She is able to do what Foul seems unable to do: simply possess him - take his will from him and make it her own. Foul doesn't seem to operate this way. He corrupts people so that they do what he wants of their own free will. The Ravers might be able to possess Covenant (I don't remember if they are unable for some reason), but Foul had ordered them not to. As you quoted above, Foul knows that, if they possess him the way Linden does, they will become stronger than him (Foul).


Much of this debate is speculation. We could go back and forth about it, and never know for sure. But it is my belief that ONLY Covenant could have placed himself between Foul and the Arch of Time the way he did. I do not believe that he could have given the ring to anyone else, and had them do what he did. As he told Foul at the end, "You can't take the wild magic away from me."

[danlo]

Well, I have 2 sound a little bit like the crabby old schoolteacher. Kaos and others--Dissecting is different from the other 4rums on this board. If u wish 2 have a discussion like this (in the open) either do it 2 the TCTC 4rum or, more importantly, use the spoiler blackout or use strong spoiler alerts here!!!!

Dissecting assumes that even a new reader is following along w/the group reads and has not yet read TPTP or TOT--we take it step by step. I won't delete this time but please respect the specific nature of this 4rum in the future. Thanks!

[KaosArcana]

danlo

Well, I have 2 sound a little bit like the crabby old schoolteacher. Kaos and others--Dissecting is different from the other 4rums on this board. If u wish 2 have a discussion like this (in the open) either do it 2 the TCTC 4rum or, more importantly, use the spoiler blackout or use strong spoiler alerts here!!!!

*Meekly*

Yes, sir. I'll be good. 8

Han-shan: I'd be happy to discuss it with you on the other
board.

[birdandbear]

bump, for dlbpharmd

[Believer]

I've been re-reading this, so thought I'd chime in. I also was wondering what Law Hile Troy was breaking by using the wild magic. I doubt it had anything to do with breaking the AoT (sorry), only because the sustaining of it isn't really referred to as a law elsewhere... And Caerroil refers to it as a definite breaking of law, not of something that could potentially happen.

I'm more inclined to see it as breaking the law that binds wild magic to the white gold (Covenant). And I agree that it was merely Covenant's fear of the power he had that kept him from wielding it without a trigger. Had he not been a leper, not so trained to give up on hope, to be a coward, to recoil from power, to cling to impotence, he could have called it up by will.

In fact, he does this a couple times without a trigger, by passion. Once when raping Lena (there's a reference to a white lightning or something -- and could that have had to do with Elena's strangeness, as much as her experience with the Ranyhyn did?),

Spoiler

and again when Foamfollower was crossing Hotash Slay, and again when he first enters the land in the 2nd Chrons.

In any case... It's interesting because, had another person been summoned to the Land with the white gold, one like Hile Troy, who eventually succumbed to despair... I bet Foul would have wrested the wild magic from him. Because he would have despaired in the end, as Troy did.

Spoiler

You'll remember the Creator's comment at the end of TPTP that Covenant was familiar with despair; and Covenant's own response to Foul that he couldn't be corrupted, because he was already too corrupt. Interesting stuff -- it's always the case that the things that can defeat Foul are also the things that can help him most. I wonder if real life is like that.

[Fist and Faith]

I wonder if real life is like that.

Oh, you can bet on it! Nothing can do more for me than love. And nothing is so paralyzing than my fear for my loved ones.

[dlbpharmd]

Bump the winning Dissection by Earthblood.

[Cord Hurn]

Certainly this chapter contains some of Bannor's most heroic moments in the Chronicles:

The water boiled and heaved wildly. But one end of the crevice opened into other caverns. The cataracts turned as they fell, and thrashed through the crevice as if it were an immense chute or channel. By the orcrest light, Bannor saw in time which way the water poured. He poled the boat so that it shot downward along the torrent.

After that, the craft hurtled down the frenetic watercourse in a long night mare of tumult, jagged rocks, narrows, sudden, heart-stopping falls, close death. The current tumbled, thundered, race from the fathomless bowels of Melenkurion Skyweir. Many times the craft disappeared under the fierce roil of the rush, but each time its potent wood--wood capable of withstanding Earthroot--bore it to the surface again. And many times Bannor and Covenant foundered in cascades that crashed onto them from above, but the water did not harm them--either it had lost its strength in the fall, or it was already diluted by other buried springs and lakes.

Through it all, Covenant held his orcrest high. Some last unconscious capacity for endurance kept his fingers locked and his arm raised. And the stone's unfaltering fire lighted the boat's way, so that, even in the sharpest hysteria of the current, Bannor was able to steer, avoid rocks and backwaters, fend around curves--preserve himself and the Unbeliever. The torrent's violence soon splintered his pole, but he replaced it with the other gunwale. When that was gone, he used a seat board as a rudder.

Straining and undaunted, he brought the voyage through to its final crisis.

Without warning, the boat shot down a huge flow into a cavern that showed no exit. The water frothed viciously, seeking release, and the air pressure mounted, became more savage every instant. A swift eddy caught the craft, swung it around and under the massive pour of water.

Helplessly, the boat was driven down.

Bannor clawed his way to Covenant. He wrapped his legs around Covenant's waist, snatched the orcrest from him. Clutching the stone as if to sustain himself with it, Bannor clamped his other hand over Covenant's nose and mouth.

He held that position as the boat sank.

The plunging weight of water thrust them straight under. Pressure squeezed them until Bannor's eyes pounded in their sockets, and his ears yowled as if they were about to rupture. He could feel Covenant screaming in his grasp. But he held his grip in the extremity of the last faithfulness--clung to the bright strength of the orcrest with one hand, and kept Covenant from breathing with the other.

Then they were sucked into a side tunnel, an outlet. Immediately, all the pressure of the trapped air and water hurled them upward. Covenant went limp; Bannor's lungs burned. But he retained enough alertness to swing himself upright as the water burst free. In a high, arching spout, it carried the two men into the cleft of Rivenrock, and sent them shooting out into the open morning of the Black River and Garroting Deep.

For a moment, sunshine and free sky and forest reeled around Bannor, and flares of released pressure staggered across his sight. Then the fortitude of his Vow returned. Wrapping both arms around Covenant, he gave one sharp jerk which started the Unbeliever's lungs working again.

It's pretty thrilling to read all of this again. I rather feel like I myself have just passed through a dramatic event just enjoying SRD's descriptions!