Kevin's Watch

Posted: **Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:49 am**

Money gives a person options/choices they would not normally have access to. Have you ever heard the saying that crazy is crazy, unless you have money - then you're just eccentric? I say that without sarcasm - my wife suffers from clinical depression, so I have some experience with all the various reasons to live and why lists are of limited use.
But back to money/fame. Money and fame and the so-called idle-rich life can't buy you happiness - especially if you are living the idle-rich life but were brought up with working-class values. In that case, you will have the trappings of success but you might always feel like a charlatan or a poser - someone who hasn't earned the position you hold. And all of that is talking about 'normal' people - whatever normal is.
My experience in dealing with others' depression is watching them lose the ability to see or take joy in the good or neutral things.
Imagine being told that you are worthless, a burden on others, that you have nothing to offer, that everything you do fails or falls to $#!t, and that your friends only tolerate you because they pity you. Now imagine that voice being your own and inside your head 24/7 - awake or asleep, with vivid, haunting nightmares that you have a hard time separating from reality. If you can imagine that, you get close to what depression is.

It is most certainly not just a bad day.

Whether Mr Wilson is going through that or not, I have no idea. Considering his writing credits and choices of movies, I gather that he might have some experience with mental illness. Coming out and saying that in Hollywood would certainly make you radioactive to the studios and their insurers, though.

dw

Posted: **Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:31 pm**

Razors pain you;
Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you;
And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren’t lawful;
Nooses give;
Gas smells awful;
You might as well live.

Posted: **Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:25 pm**

ahhhh!! Sylvanus! my favorite Dorothy Parker poem!!

ps...

i have several (yes, several) friends who have considered the option of taking their own lives. both my parents and both my grandmothers struggled with depression all their lives. my husband was workin on a kind of suicide since the age of 16 (the very slow kind) and battles depression in cycles (altho he's much improved in the last 4 years).

none of them are rich and famous but all of them tell me the same thing,
they say they are tired...very very tired, and they just want to "get off the bus".

(quoted phrase is from marsha norman's extraordinary play 'night Mother, which, if you're interested in this subject, as i suppose most of you who post in this thread are, you should rent the film version, sissy spacek and anne bancroft in two of their best roles. this film is not entertainment.)

Posted: **Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:43 pm**

Yeah, it's a good movie, but I'd agree...it ain't fun.

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:29 am**

That is one intense movie. One that I will never forget.

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:24 am**

i have no sympathy for the rich and famous. they have millions to get a good therapist, the best hospitals, the best drugs. they don't have to worry about losing their job if they take a break. i worked in a psych hospital and can tell you most of those people needed a swift kick in the ass. there were the truly sick who needed constant care. but too many in our culture use depression to excuse their bad behaviour. it is the common cold of the psych world. most depression i saw was situational. a break up, a lost job, etc. we had the truly insane and you could easily tell the difference.

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:03 pm**

I feel sorry for anyone who is depressed, regardless of their current lifestyle. Yes, the wealthy have better access to health care, but there still a stigma associated with mental illness. maybe owen was too embarrassed to get help until it was too late.

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:38 pm**

The article I read blamed Steve Coogan for 'leading him astray' , and the drug abuse lead to depression led to attempted suicide.

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:44 pm**

KiGirl wrote:I feel sorry for anyone who is depressed, regardless of their current lifestyle. Yes, the wealthy have better access to health care, but there still a stigma associated with mental illness. maybe owen was too embarrassed to get help until it was too late.

depends. did he cut across or up and down?

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:19 pm**

sgt.null wrote:
KiGirl wrote:I feel sorry for anyone who is depressed, regardless of their current lifestyle. Yes, the wealthy have better access to health care, but there still a stigma associated with mental illness. maybe owen was too embarrassed to get help until it was too late.
depends. did he cut across or up and down?

ha ha

Posted: **Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:39 pm**

Several thoughts.

One--anyone who thinks acting isn't real work doesn't know what they're talking about. Period.

Second--I have no idea what is going on in Owen Wilson's life, but if in fact he tried to commit suicide he deserves some simple human decency. Yeah, celebrities are people, too. And why is that a point that even has to be made?

I don't much care for his movies, either. So what? I'm depressed--do I have to show people my poetry to see if they care for it to see whether I merit any sympathy or not? Or whether my depression will be dismissed?

We don't know him. We don't know what is going on in his life. He's a comic, and based on my experience that means he's probably got some really serious issues (at least every comic I've known had a heft dose of darkness in'em--that was what the comedy was for, to deal with it!). Money, fame and hot women are not a cure for depression. They're not bad things. I'm sure they're actually quite fun in a lot of ways. But they are hardly a cure for emotional pain. Look at it this way--if someone had cancer, would you say to him "But you're rich and famous!" I hope not.

Maybe Owen Wilson is a narcissist willing to do vastly dangerous things for a bit of the spotlight. Or a genuinely troubled man trying to cope with emotional investments that are shredding him into pieces. Or both. Or neither.

But when someone goes to the hospital, sick, my reaction is pretty much the same. I pray they get better. Even if they already have things I myself desperately wish were mine--a wife, a home, etc.

Posted: **Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:45 am**

very good post, zahir

Posted: **Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:13 am**

OT, but acting isn't real work. Getting paid $20,000,000 to tell fart jokes is not work. Is there skill and craft to it? Absolutely, but the fry guy at McDonalds will happily act, while I doubt George Clooney is itchin' to flip burgers.

I base this on having spent the better part of a decade working with, directing, and being an actor.

Posted: **Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:02 am**

Cail wrote:OT, but acting isn't real work. Getting paid $20,000,000 to tell fart jokes is not work. Is there skill and craft to it? Absolutely, but the fry guy at McDonalds will happily act, while I doubt George Clooney is itchin' to flip burgers.

I base this on having spent the better part of a decade working with, directing, and being an actor.

Agreed; it's probably a little cliche, but there's *supposed* to be that whole "doing what I love" thing working into acting, comedy, and most fields that celebrities go into. But I don't think that an occupational advantage is alone for me to have no sympathy for him.

But I'm a fucking sympathetic bastard, I'd feel sorry for someone who tried to kill me.

Posted: **Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:48 am**

I've acted, almost entirely on stage, and directed. Yeah, it is work. So is flipping burgers. So is designed toilets, sewing dresses, mowing lawns, performing surgery, playing a musical instrument, selling real estate, proof-reading text, etc.

Sometimes--especially if done well--is is very hard work. It is certainly harder than my paying job at the moment (market research via telephone surveys).

And whether anyone wants to do any of the above is irrelevant to the question of whether acting qualifies as "work."

Posted: **Wed Sep 19, 2007 7:09 am**

Zahir wrote:I've acted, almost entirely on stage, and directed. Yeah, it is work. So is flipping burgers. So is designed toilets, sewing dresses, mowing lawns, performing surgery, playing a musical instrument, selling real estate, proof-reading text, etc.

Sometimes--especially if done well--is is very hard work. It is certainly harder than my paying job at the moment (market research via telephone surveys).

And whether anyone wants to do any of the above is irrelevant to the question of whether acting qualifies as "work."

There is in terms of happiness, satisfaction, whatever. I'm going to hazard that acting is a more self-fulfilling occupation than being a burger flipper. Or, a little more precisely, most actors probably find their occupation as a means in and of itself than burger flippers, who are probably going to be satisfied by what they get for doing their job.

Now, I admit that Lester Burnham might've thought burger flipping was fulfilling, but 1: American Beauty is a Hollywood movie, and Kevin Spacey is an actor, not a burger flipper and 2: the guy also thought screwing his daughter's friend would be fulfilling (well, I admit mena suvari does look rather fulfilling...), and 3: he was in some job involving cubicles beforehand.

I'm fairly sure this is what Cail was saying, and it's what I'm saying. It might be irrelevant to whether acting qualifies as work, but the overarcing question is whether being an actor is a cause for depression, or isn't. And whether it makes "sense" for a hollywood actor to be depressed. From my POV, I don't really feel justified talking about whether someone SHOULD feel a certain way, but in terms of thinking about acting as a "positive" or "negative" career in terms of psychological health is sorta interesting.

Truth be told, if Owen Wilson feels like "oh, crap, I just realized I hate acting" I could imagine it being a little worse than him - at least a burger flipper can say "well, I'm a burger flipper, I probably shouldn't expect too much, and there are plenty of better opportunities."

Just be thankful I didn't try to start arguing about work in the way it's defined by physics.

Posted: **Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:12 am**

Holsety wrote:I'm fairly sure this is what Cail was saying, and it's what I'm saying. It might be irrelevant to whether acting qualifies as work, but the overarcing question is whether being an actor is a cause for depression, or isn't. And whether it makes "sense" for a hollywood actor to be depressed. From my POV, I don't really feel justified talking about whether someone SHOULD feel a certain way, but in terms of thinking about acting as a "positive" or "negative" career in terms of psychological health is sorta interesting.

I believe the overarcing question is whether or not someone who tries to kill themself should be treated like crap. Or perhaps the question is: If I do treat such a person like crap, does that say anything about me?

Posted: **Wed Sep 19, 2007 11:50 am**

I don't think anyone is treating Wilson like crap.

Wilson is an incredibly fortunate person in that he gets paid millions of dollars to basically play make-believe (and tell fart jokes). While anyone who attempts suicide is obviously troubled and deserves treatment for whatever brought them to that point, I have a hard time understanding how someone who's had the dumb luck to fall into a position like Wilson's (because I'd argue that the guy is horrifically untalented) can be so depressed that they'd attempt to take their life (or make the attempt as a cry for help).

Posted: **Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:15 pm**

i was in a local commercial once and the taping lasted for two days. i was worn out, but then again, i am not used to doing that. it doesn't matter what he does for a living and it doesn't matter how much money he makes. the guy was in pain and in pain enough to try to end his life. depression doesn't just affect the poor or the unfortunate. it affects many people. maybe he has a family history. i bet he wishes he wasn't depressed b/c depression sucks.

Posted: **Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:32 pm**

Let me put it this way--if in fact Owen Wilson did try to commit suicide and it was a genuine act, I think his job almost certainly isn't a reason he did it. He might be someone who uses work as a way of shunting aside emotional issues--there are lots of folks who do that--but that isn't the same as being depressed because of his job.

Then again, he might have some serious neurosis or neuroses about being an "artist" instead of doing "real work" (Richard Burton did). In that case maybe it could be a contributing factor to his sense of self worth.

Maybe. I don't know. But again, I'm not gonna dismiss his pain because he's got a lot more money than I do, has a job I would consider loads of fun, nor because of any opinion I might have about his talent. Don't see how any of that is relevant.

Why is any of this even an issue? I genuinely don't understand this attitude of hearing someone tried to kill themselves and then sneering about it.

And "sneering" is exactly what I'm seeing.