Kevin's Watch

Posted: **Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:00 pm**

Re: And of course, the Elohim didn't stop Linden from doing what she did because they still hoped that the Sun-Sage would make the right choice. So the lazy asses of the Elohim would not need to be lifted off the couch.

There's a kind of truce in Andelain which prevented Infelice from using force. Plus the Elohim are not known for courage and Linden held powers that could harm even Infelice.

Posted: **Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:27 pm**

That depends on what you call force, though. I somehow see Infelice commanding the dead to silence not being a use of force.

Posted: **Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:42 am**

SoulBiter wrote:
Emotional Leper wrote: And it could have been the Necessity of Freedom that bound the tongues of the dead.
Thats what Im thinking. I dont think they were forced by anything other than that.

And I do think there is another law involved... As Elena eluded to when she talked to Covenant in Andelain in TWL.

"Ah, beloved," Elena replied quickly, in the clear irrefusable voice which he remembered with such anguish, "this is not a time for grief. Our hearts are glad to behold you here. We have not come to cause you pain, but to bless you with our love. And to give you gifts, as the Law permits."
Also Mhoram eluded to a risk in what is said:
"One word more," Mhoram said to Covenant. "This must be spoken, though I risk much in saying it.
What risk? I think the risk in either breaking a law or perhaps taking away the necessity of Freedom from someone outside the land so they dont become a 'tool'.

Linden is a tool!!

Posted: **Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:33 pm**

A hot, crazy, kleenexin' tool.

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:55 pm**

One thing I find unusual.... Is that the dead did not speak to LA in FR, but Kevin did in Andelain once before. All of TC dead gave him helpful snippets at the time.

Maybe because TC was the White Gold which is outside of the Land and therefore not subject to its laws. Whereas LA is not the white gold and therefore the dead cannot speak to her. But why did they earlier? .....What a wishy washy Law.

Why did TC tell Linden to "find him", causing her to believe she needed to go to Andelain and talk to the dead, along with other reasons, if he knew he and the dead would not be able to talk to her?

Posted: **Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:22 pm**

I suspect that not all is at is seems. The Dead were being prevented from speaking to her by some outside force or being, possibly the Elohim. Supposedly this is because her actions in Andelain were supposed to be her choice--she has to choose her course of action for herself or she becomes only a useless tool in someone else's hands.

How do we know that it was Covenant speaking to Linden through Anele? Yes, it sounded like what he would say but it could have been anyone.

Presuming it was Covenant, he might have urged her to find him in Andelain but then something changed in between when he told her and she actually got there. She went backwards in time and, as far as I can tell, upgraded/redefined her Staff in some way thanks to Caerroil Wildwood. What do the runes he carved onto the Staff mean and what are they really for? And how are they related to the grass stains on her jeans? (the stains were important enough for Wildwood to take note of them)

His meaning of "find me" might be figurative; he could have meant "find me inside you" so that she could use her ring effectively and correctly.

Posted: **Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:09 am**

" also, she bears the mark of long grass and of fecundity" is what Caerroil Wildwood stated. Now I looked up fecundity the dictionary and it basically means fertility. To me, this means Linden is a renewer of life or, perhaps she may get.....uh possibly... with child? Or be placed in a position in the "real world and the stains will remind her of the Land. Also, the Staff runes to me, at least, are a reinforcement of the fundaments of Law. Look, she had Vain. She had Findail. She merged them with what she thought would fit and be natural to the Land's Laws. However she had only a short term concept of what the Land is about. A few months of going through it with Covenant and friends. Lords, Woodhelvennin,,Gravelingas, Giants Haruchai etc....KNOW the Land ,(i.e.born to ,lived in , in tune with...) Hence, a Land lore wise being at one with the Land enhanced its Law abiding meaning. And maybe its blackening in the Earthblood during the Rog-Jerecroyel battle is like a "curing " or "seasoning "process in its development

Posted: **Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:31 pm**

In FR, The dead were not prevented from speaking to Linden by some being, they were prevented by the situation. At least, that's the way I read it.

I suspect that they all knew what Linden would do. And they dared not say anything for fear of interfering in Linden's decision. Before, the Dead had been allowed to say some things, but they still held back on many things. They could not provide any important answers. This time, Linden's act was the crux of everything important, and nothing at all could be said safely, as everything that could be said would bear on that decision.

Although Hollian seems to have snuck in a word just before.

I believe that the Dead were equally silent when they gathered to see Covenant destroy Foul the first time.

Posted: **Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:11 pm**

While I hesitate to disagree with so respected a Chronicles scholar as Wayfriend, the Dead did speak to Covenant during his confrontation with Foul at the climax of the First Chrons:

in [i]The Power That Preserves[/i], SRD wrote: They were the spectors of the dead Lords. He recognized Kevin Landwaster, son of Loric. Beside Kevin stood two other livid men whom he knew instinctively to be Loric Vilesilencer and Damelon Giantfriend. There were Prothall, Osondrea, a score of men and women Covenant had never met, never heard named. With them was Elena, daughter of Lena. And behind and above them all rose another figure, a dominating man with hot prophetic eyes and one halfhand: Berek Earthfriend, the Lord-Fatherer.

In one voice like a thunder of abomination -- one voice of outrage that shook Covenant to the marrow of his bones -- they cried, "Slay him! It is within your power. Do not heed his treacherous lies. In the name of all Earth and health, slay him!"

This advice -- nay, demand -- pretty directly bears on the decision that Covenant is about to make, yet he chooses his own path.

In a voice thick with grief, he answered the Lords, "I can't kill him. He always survives when you try to kill him. He comes back stronger than ever the next time. Despite is like that. I can't kill him."

Posted: **Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:34 pm**

So they did. I should have checked that first. Thanks, Savor Dam!

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:25 pm**

High Lord Tolkien wrote:So unless I misread that part I think it was TC himself that refused to speak to Linden.
If he had told her or advised her what to do I think it would have been catastrophic.

I don't know how it could potentially be any more catastrophic than how it has seemingly turned out.

Even though she was warned about this during the horserite, she had convinced herself that she couldn't handle the situation without TC.

Infelice seemed to obviously not want this ending while the Harrow on the other hand seemed to obviously want this to occur. All is not what it always seems to be however.

The staff was made over by Caerroil Wildwood and the Mahdoubt led her to that path so I think that in the end we will find out that she was meant to do what she did.

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 9:33 pm**

In [u]The Wounded Land[/u] was wrote:"As in the summoning of dead Kevin which broke the Law of Death," interposed Elena, "the answers of the Dead rebound upon the questioner. We will not harm you with our answers, beloved."

Posted: **Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:40 pm**

I concur.

What people want to hear and what they need to hear are usually two different things.

Kevin's Watch

ANDELAIN {SPOILER}