Kevin's Watch

matrixman wrote:Wait, I thought Drool was deformed by the Illearth Stone fragment he had with him. That was the last we saw of him, on the slopes of Mt Thunder, coercing the ur-viles to attack the company of the Quest.

And I agree that the ur-viles were incapable of reproducing through sex, they were made beings themselves. Actually, weren't the Demondim made beings as well? The Viles made the Demondim, because the Viles themselves had been rendered impotent by Loric Vilesilencer, right?

Well, I thought that Loric slew the Raver/Demondim Loremaster with the krill.

I also thought that Drool was deformed by the Staff.

Yeah, I, too, believe Drool was deformed from his use of the Staff of Law. Not simply because he was using it, but because he was using it for purposes contrary to its nature.

And Ur-Viles do not have sex.

[That Song]There is no sex in Foul's Creche.[/That Song]

matrixman wrote:And I agree that the ur-viles were incapable of reproducing through sex, they were made beings themselves. Actually, weren't the Demondim made beings as well? The Viles made the Demondim, because the Viles themselves had been rendered impotent by Loric Vilesilencer, right?

Spoiler

The whole Vile-Demondim-Ur Vile/Waynhim cycle was caused because they are all "made" beings who do not belong in nature, signified by their inability to reproduce naturally, and who therefore have to create more of their species through lore.

The Viles were created through 'organic' magic (as in it just happened, no-one did it deliberately) as the by-products of the magic of the banes buried under Mt Thunder.

<[The Viles]> were non-corporeal, and under the tutelage of the Ravers learned to hate themselves for not being 'natural' creatures and for having no purpose to their lives (ie. not even the normal animal drives of food, survival, reproduction).

Spoiler

That self-loathing lead them to try to 'procreate' but in a way that was superior to their own now-despised state. This was the Demondim, who were corporeal, in that they were made from the animated corpses of other creatures. This brought them closer to what the Viles now considered to be the desirable state for a creature to be. Sometime after this Loric wiped out the Viles.

However the Demondim were afflicted with the same self-loathing as the Viles, and they

<[The Demondim]> in turn used their lore to again try to 'procreate' and create a superior form of creature. These were the ur-vile and the waynhim, who they created in their breeding pits (I'm picturing something along the lines of, but a bit different from, Saruman's breeding pits of Uruk-Hai in the LOTR movies). The Demondim were wiped out in the RoD, but their spawn survived. The ur-viles shared the disdain of their forms with both forms of their ancestors, and fell into despite. The waynhim found a better answer and found a purpose in service to the Land. The ur-viles, because they were unhappy, continued the breeding efforts, culminating in Vain, in whose creation they finally found an answer as to what the purpose of their existence was.

<Syl: spoiler tags added since most information was revealed only in FR. If I'm incorrect in this, inform me where it's given in the First and Second Chrons, and I'll unedit.>

Hm, this last post also should be spoilered, as it is mostly taken from FR. (Is there any point still in spoilering FR?)

amanibhavam wrote:(Is there any point still in spoilering FR?)

Yes.

If you say so

Thanks Syl - I was in the process of going back and spoiler tagging the whole thing. Sorry if I've ruined anything for anyone, but I must add that although this stuff is spelt out in greater length in FR, the majority of it is explained in WGW by Hamako, unless I've gone loopy and am badly mistaken. Pretty certain that includes the origins of the Viles, the reasons they made the Demondim and the reasons why they in turn made the ur-viles and waynhim, and the basis of their differing weirds...

No, prob, man. I even had to take a few minutes to confer with someone else to be sure it was actually only given in FR. No big deal. Way and amani are just fast.

I also thought that Drool was deformed by the Staff.

as Prothall confronts Drool in Kiril Threndor he pronounces :

Are you blind to yourself ? Do you not see what has happened to you ? This power is not meant for you. It destroys you. You have used the Staff wrongly. You have used the Illearth Stone. Such powers are deadly. Lord Foul has betrayed you.

So according to Prothall, *misuse* of the Staff combined with possession of the Illearth Stone led to Drool's deformity .. Which causes me to cast my mind to Elena Foul-wife; was she similarly affected when she abused the Staff's power ? Or did her undead state in effect preserve her physical appearance from blighting ?
In the chapter 'Colossus' in TPTP, she appears 'flourished in green loveliness' - she smells of leprosy and the light has gone from her eyes, but she appears essentially the same way she had when she'd been alive ..

I thought it was the combination of wielding the Staff AND the Stone that deformed Drool - two such polar opposite kinds of power.

In reference to the original question, I have no answer, but in any great cataclysm there are survivors. Somehow a little piece of everything survived, even Aliantha.