Kevin's Watch

Actually there is no reference, to my knowledge, of ANY human's race. Linden Avery has "wheaten tresses," which pretty much marks her as Caucasian, but other than that, I really don't know how I would make an assumption of race. Covenant has gray eyes, which doesn't mean much of anything these days. Vanessa Williams has blue eyes, Tyra Banks has light green eyes, so it's not defining. The cover art for the books depicts every human as light-skinned, but nowhere does it say so. Very interesting question indeed. I am about to start re-reading the entire Chronicles again for the fiftieth time (well, maybe not THAT many) and I will pay special attention to descriptions of the humans. I'm intrigued about it now.

No, no race mentioned that I can remember - but given the Haruchai name, combat style, and shortness, flat face, etc - I always guessed them to be Korean, Japanese etc.

I know, I know - painfully obvious...

Always assumed he was white, but as others have said, there's no real reason for that. Actually pictured him as a very fair blond, y'know where his tan makes his skin darker than his hair.

Started LFB again a couple of nights ago and was shocked to notice that Trell is described as having red, or 'fiery' hair. I ALWAYS pictured him as having dark hair - almost a Hagrid from Harry Potter (although I read TCTC a long time before any Harry Potter books or movies) kind of figure.

Bran Pendragon wrote:Started LFB again a couple of nights ago and was shocked to notice that Trell is described as having red, or 'fiery' hair. I ALWAYS pictured him as having dark hair - almost a Hagrid from Harry Potter (although I read TCTC a long time before any Harry Potter books or movies) kind of figure.

Bran, if you haven't already, come stick your head into the JKR forum over in the library. We just finished a group read of the first book, and fresh perspectives are always welcome.

...yeah, yeah...I know...off topic and forum pimping...

Ur Dead wrote: Maybe the vague feelings come from today media. The portrait of Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder. Both being blind, well in the public eye, both musical geniuses and very accomplished entertainters.
Hile Troy connection would be blind and a genius for a think tank.

I was thinking this was a likely possibility, myself... the sunglasses, the sunglasses.

I never pictured him as black, but now that I think about it I can understand why some people do. Remember that part in TIW, when Troy regains consciousness in Doriendor Corishev and those Foul's Army guys attack him?

One of them asks mockingly, "Is it an ur-vile?" because of Troy's eyelessness. But don't ur-viles also have black skin? Maybe that mental image makes a lot of people subconsciously assume that Troy does too? Or close to it?

Hm, I rather like the idea. Now I'm envisioning a whole new Hile Troy. Bonus! Yes, I know I'm crazy for liking him, but I do. Sue me.

Eerie! I had him pegged as black myself. SRD is messing with my mind!

Actually, I could have sworn - untill I read my highly esteemed co-watchers posts in here - that his ethnicity is mentioned. Now, I'm at a loss.

Good one about the Ur-vile jwaneeta, but I'm not sure that's where I got it from.

Ur-dead wrote:The portrait of Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder. Both being blind, well in the public eye, both musical geniuses and very accomplished entertainters.
Hile Troy connection would be blind and a genius for a think tank.
The connection is vague but people tend to assoicate book characters with public figures. Both Ray and Stevie were in the public's eye during the release of the second book and still are.(RIP Ray) And naturally people tend to gravitate the real person to the character.

You might very possibly be onto something there Ur dead. But I'd really hate for my own brain to be playing such obvious tricks on me!

Has anyone asked SRD this in the GI?

jwaneeta wrote:Hm, I rather like the idea. Now I'm envisioning a whole new Hile Troy. Bonus! Yes, I know I'm crazy for liking him, but I do. Sue me.

I quite like him as well.

How amusing. Personally, I first pictured Hile Troy as Bono (it's the shades) and it just stuck.

heh
Bono wasn't known when I first read TCTC.

Well, I've read through all the Hile Troy sections in TIW, and I can't find any reason to suspect Troy is black. There is never any mention of his skin tone or even his hair color (SRD even mentions that his headband is burned off, but says nothing about what happened to his hair). The best general description is that he's 'friendly looking,' but that's only in comparison to someone else they might've summoned without Foul's intervention. If you want to quibble, at one point it's mentioned that his grip was so tight his knuckles were white.

A few times, Troy's sunglasses looked at people 'darkly' and 'blackly.'

I mean, at one point it's even said that covenant is 'gaunt and gray.' But apparently, Troy's blindness to within anything of six feet of himself apparently extends to his own image. He doesn't think of himself as anything but blind or eyeless, and everyone else seems to do the same.

Prebe wrote:Eerie! I had him pegged as black myself. SRD is messing with my mind!


Good one about the Ur-vile jwaneeta, but I'm not sure that's where I got it from.

Ur-dead wrote:The portrait of Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder. Both being blind, well in the public eye, both musical geniuses and very accomplished entertainters.
Hile Troy connection would be blind and a genius for a think tank.
The connection is vague but people tend to assoicate book characters with public figures. Both Ray and Stevie were in the public's eye during the release of the second book and still are.(RIP Ray) And naturally people tend to gravitate the real person to the character.

You might very possibly be onto something there Ur dead. But I'd really hate for my own brain to be playing such obvious tricks on me!

I missed this suggestion when I first read the thread, but that's a good one, too! This is an interesting thread.

Very few of the characters actually have visual images for me, but Troy always did. I always pictured him as caucasian, and with dark, curly, hair. (ya know, sorta the 70's white-man's afro kinda look). I'm starting to like the idea of picturing him as black, though. Interesting.

jwaneeta wrote:
One of them asks mockingly, "Is it an ur-vile?" because of Troy's eyelessness. But don't ur-viles also have black skin? Maybe that mental image makes a lot of people subconsciously assume that Troy does too? Or close to it?

Actually, I think this is the reference that made me envision him African-American! It is subtle, but my mental image of ur-viles now extended to Troy, so I had to naturally assume that he was black.

Interesting topic. I also read the 1st Chronicles 20+ years ago; however, I thought I remember Mr. Donaldson's initial description of the Haruchai as haviing "darker" or tanned skin.

Greetings, Steven.
Be Welcome to the Watch.
Be Well Come and True.

Syl wrote:But apparently, Troy's blindness to within anything of six feet of himself apparently extends to his own image. He doesn't think of himself as anything but blind or eyeless, and everyone else seems to do the same.

What you said here struck me, Syl.
Maybe that's why there's no description of his appearance.

I always pictured him as caucasian. I first read the books in the early eighties. Hrmmm. I was gonna do a re-read this year so I will keep description references in mind as well. Very interesting thread. Good point about the urviles Jwaneeta.....

I had always thought he was African American, though I know it does not say anywhere in the books what color his skin is.

Though maybe it was only wishful thinking on my part, as back when it was written I had not run into many "minority" characters in fantasy, otehr than in LeGuin.

I never thought he was black.. I definately wouldn't have thought he was American.. I mean in the back of my mind I knew that TC and Linden were from the US, I just tried to block out any reference to it - and for the most part it worked and I was really happy with the book till I read Jeremiah's 'Hi mom.' Then the illusion was shattered.. But I still can't get my head around Linden, TC or Hile speaking in an american accent...