Kevin's Watch

Loremaster wrote:What do you mean by 'emphasis on accomplished'?

Second, define 'disaster'.

accomplished as in past.

disaster as in the deaths of astronauts due to hubris.

sgt.null wrote:

Loremaster wrote:What do you mean by 'emphasis on accomplished'?

Second, define 'disaster'.

accomplished as in past.

So, you're completely ignoring the great things they have done and are currently planning to do?

sgt.null wrote:disaster as in the deaths of astronauts due to hubris.

Occured in the past.

Seriously, Null. If the world was left up to you, we'd be living in the dark ages because you seem to think that the lives of astronaughts is somehow more important than human discovery. I admit that any death is a tragedy, yet you're somehow forgetting an extremely extremely important element . . .

Not all of NASA's actions involve sending people into space. When you realise that, you're reasoning that the cost of space missions is unnecessary.

There is always a cost to discovery. Human venture is all about turning the cost into something great; such as the price of stepping into space and making humanity great instead of staying on Earth, moaning about bad everything is while the stars glitter majestically above us.

sgt.null wrote:time to figure what nasa does to deserve their budget.

What budget?

www.nasa.gov/news/budget/index.html
- that budget.

lore - what current discovery is being made using the shuttle? what great thing were they doing when they died? Christa McCauliffe was all publicity. that is a good reason to die? i agree that at one time nasa stood for something. they had a tangible goal. but what is it now? some pipe dream of maybe one day going to other worlds?

sgt.null wrote:lore - what current discovery is being made using the shuttle?

Launch of the Hubble telescope, which continues to advance knowledge and understanding of the universe. For a start.

sgt.null wrote:what great thing were they doing when they died? Christa McCauliffe was all publicity. that is a good reason to die? i agree that at one time nasa stood for something.

And it still stands for something, but it's just that you're a luddite.

sgt.null wrote:some pipe dream of maybe one day going to other worlds?

In your opinion. Maybe it's good that you don't run government, because you're too frightened to risk people for something greater. Mistakes happen - NASA don't actively kill people (and you can't argue that mistakes outweigh all the accomplishments we've managed), but we can't hide from greater rewards and discoveries.

i support the hubble. but even that has been beset by problems and cost over-runs. just as it seems everything with nasa is beset by budget problems. they need an oversight group i should think.

and i just read that nasa doesn't include the space station projects in it's budget? good point for truth and accountability.

i am hardly a luddite. but i want our money going to something tangible. not in the hope of using this world up and heading for space.

we know less about our own oceans. i would rather spend money on finding alternate fuel sources. i would rather find a way to make desalinization plants cost effective. i would rather fix our problems here.

sgt.null wrote:i support the hubble. but even that has been beset by problems and cost over-runs.

Just like every other human endeavour, null.

sgt.null wrote:i am hardly a luddite. but i want our money going to something tangible. not in the hope of using this world up and heading for space.

You're reasoning is that space research is not tangible. That's not correct, as there have been plenty of discoveries resulting from space exploration and research that have benefitted us on Earth. Secondly, why should money be spent on something tangible? Alot of money on earth is spent on the theoretical. Granted that usually ends up practical, but we should never limit our advancement to the tangible. Knowledge doesnt work that way.

sgt.null wrote: i would rather fix our problems here.

Pulling money out of space wont do it. Honestly, don't you have better targets, like the military? But fixing poverty wont come about through spending NASA's budget - world economics (that is, markets, corporations, etc) is more to blame, and hardly going to change unless we drastically change the way the world, and humans, work.

sgt.null wrote:i support the hubble. but even that has been beset by problems and cost over-runs. just as it seems everything with nasa is beset by budget problems. they need an oversight group i should think.

and i just read that nasa doesn't include the space station projects in it's budget? good point for truth and accountability.

i am hardly a luddite. but i want our money going to something tangible. not in the hope of using this world up and heading for space.

we know less about our own oceans. i would rather spend money on finding alternate fuel sources. i would rather find a way to make desalinization plants cost effective. i would rather fix our problems here.

I don't believe the problems you mention are being overlooked because the Federal Government spends some of our money on Space research. If we closed down NASA and diverted the money back into the general fund I doubt there would be a sudden increase in Oceanic exploration or a spike in alternative fuel research. I'm guessing what we are discussing here isn't so much a question of money but one of commitment.
I'd much rather talk people out of spending money on Britney Spears cds and re directing those millions of dollars to helping find shelter for the homeless but again we're talking about a priorities.

I bet if the researchers at NASA said that the answer for "CO2 caused global warming" was out in space I'm sure they would get plenty of funding. That subject alone proves that we don't know what we should be spending our money on.

how about the earth that we have?

i will admit a personal bias against nasa. and i just don't see them improving. too many over-runs. too much thought put into publicity over hard science.

compromise? find something better than the shuttle. something like hubble that has real results. more unmanned probes of the sun/other planets. that stuff i can get behind.