hile troy not leaving

Post by **Furls Fire** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:47 am

your 2 thousand years old...can't you fight your own battles by now???

Post by **Skyweir** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:54 am

oooohhh arrgghhh .. stop yer bickering m' swabbies!!

we no a feared o' no giantish types

we also no real clever sorties neither

.. we gots our gunpowder jacks .. and we's gonna give 'em both barrels!!

we's evil piratey dudes .. and we're gots us sum' treasures to stash!!

heave HO .. look lively .. and pull yer heads in .. ya dont want em gettin' blown to smitherines do's ya's??

eeee .. arrrrr *big smelly pirate grin* arrrghhh

we's gots our piratey wiles we does

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:59 am

But my dad's 4 thousand.

Post by **Furls Fire** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:12 am

And he doesn't look a day over 3500

ARGH!! Giant treasure!! Look lively!! Swine!!

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:15 am

Oh you smooth-talker!! Da's gonna be pleased when I tell him!

Post by **Furls Fire** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:23 am

LOL!!

Post by **Skyweir** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:43 am

aye thar there furls is a bonza good piratey dude .. but thar Fisty fella's 'opeless!! make 'im walk thar plank!!

over wiv 'im matey!! he dont know now't 'bout pillagin' and a plunderin' ye ol' giantish treasures ..

off wiv 'is 'ead!! .. ooo arrghh .. oooo .. no we're no in guillotine lubbin' France

.. so we'll make 'im walk da plank to Davies Locker!!!

eee arrrghh ..

Post by **aTOMiC** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:38 am

Hile Troy. When I first read The Illearth War I simply dismissed Troy’s existence as an additional figment of Covenant’s imagination along with Lena, Elena, Foamfollower and so on. Covenant calls the Department of Defense to ask about him and they don’t have any idea who he’s talking about. Of course it is the military. They may not be in the habit of giving out information about their top-secret think tank personnel, but I was content to write his story off as part of Covenant’s delusion. However now having read both Chronicles at least three times I know better than that. Atiaran has a revelation about how to bring the Un-believer back to the Land. The Lore Wardens think it’s too risky so she runs off by herself and gives it a shot. She managed to hit the tree but misses the target. She summons Hile Troy and with him the searing flames of his near fatal crisis. She is consumed. Killed at the very moment of the summoning. Hile Troy’s body is presumably destroyed in the real world at the very same moment. If you can believe in having your sprit/essence translated to another plane of existence (The Land if you will), then it follows that if your being has no living body to return to in the real world it also follows that it would be trapped in the other existence. Hile Troy became a permanent resident of the Land. He had nothing to lose in his choice to give in the lure of what the Land offered because unlike Covenant he could not return to the real world. It is possible however that given the complexities of Lord Foul’s machinations; Troy’s summoning may have been influenced or even deliberately prompted by Foul. This is all of course speculation on my part. Only SRD knows for sure.

Post by **Skyweir** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:43 am

well we are all Masters of Speculation here

Troys summoning being influenced by Foul eh? well i guess its possible .. but via messing with Atiaran's head somehow .. influencing her to give into her own despair?

well if Foul is the despiser .. does that mean he is responsible for despair? and despairing? Can he mess with the heads of those that despair?

mmm ..

Post by **aTOMiC** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 10:04 am

Troy’s actions though consciously in defiance of Lord Foul’s machinations, may have been foreseen as a useful part of Foul’s overall plan. The defeat of his army at Garroting Deep may have been all part of the overall recipe for the Despiser’s victory. In the Star Wars saga, the Emperor willing sacrificed his alliance with the Trade Federation and the destruction of its droid army in order to acquire the much more useful Army of the Republic made up of the storm trooper clones. Troy may have been hand picked to fulfill some important component to the Land’s doom. Or I’m thinking way too much about all this.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 10:43 am

clearfrontier wrote:Or I’m thinking way too much about all this.

Just the way we like our Watchers!! Glad to have you aboard!

Have you read the Foul's true nature thread? You are having similar thoughts.

Post by **Skyweir** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:13 pm

yeah clearfrontier .. it may well have been all part of the insidious plans of Fouls machination!

and although Troy may have been a "consciously defiant" factor to Foul .. he really wasnt that much of a defiance .. or even much of a threat ..

Foul may well have had that figured before his summoning .. or mis-summoning

Post by **Landwaster** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 5:30 pm

Do you think that Caer-Caveral's sacrifice to Covenant in Andelain could have been similarly offered by any other Forestal in his place, or was there something special about Caer-Caveral that made it a need for it to be him per se?

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:19 am

I never considered this thought! I want to say that C-C in particular was needed. After all, the Creator didn't just pick anyone with a white gold bauble, Covenant had certain qualities. Maybe C-C had certain qualities too. Maybe having been from another reality, with experiences of an entirely different sort, have something to do with him having come up with the plan. Maybe CW never would have imagined it.

Post by **Furls Fire** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:31 am

Caer-Caveral was the last of the Forestals. And he was special. He was "created" by Wildwood, but he was also from "our" reality. The power of the Forestals was immense. It was his power that kept Andelain free of the Sunbane. That power, combined with the power of the krill was the force needed to break the Law of Life.

That said, I believe it needed to be him. I believe that C-C was even more powerful then Wildwood. Garrotting Deep fell under the Sunbane. As did Morinmoss (because C-C went to Andelain), and Grimmerdhore, and the Giant Woods. The Forestals all failed accept C-C.

JMHO

Post by **Skyweir** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:23 am

yeah i liked what she said .. and it is true that CC's power was significant .. and protected Andelain from the affect of the sunbane

but I dont think it needed to be Troy per se .. nor do I think his our worldness provide him with particular greater power .. I think that great power came from CW and Troys particular and peculiar resolve ..

Hile Troy didnt really have any real power .. before he became CC .. and had the power of a Forrestal invested upon him ..

and from memory didnt CW choose him because of a deal .. CW allowed him to pass without death .. if CW could claim him .. wasnt it like a deal

my memory is flakey .. will have to go look it up

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:17 am

Fire, I wouldn't word it quite like that.

All the old forests - Grimmerdhore, Morinmoss, Garroting Deep, Giant Woods - had thrived to such an extent that Caerroil Wildwood, the Forestal of Garroting Deep, had believed his labor ended at last, and had passed away; and even the darkest trees had lost much of their enmity for the people of the Land.

Only long after that did the Sunbane come along, and destroy the forests.

Post by **Furls Fire** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:38 pm

Yeah, I remember that now too, Fist. I always thought that C-C was special tho because of the way he came to be.

And yep, he made a bargain with Wildwood that he would do anything Wildwood wanted if he would save his army. Wildwood claimed his life.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 3:48 pm

That was a pretty amazing event!!! Damn!!! Wildwood was unbelievably cool!!!!!

Post by **Tulizar** » Sat Sep 20, 2003 12:41 am

clearfrontier wrote: It is possible however that given the complexities of Lord Foul’s machinations; Troy’s summoning may have been influenced or even deliberately prompted by Foul.

Never thought of that before. Knowing how insidious Foul is, it's possible. I mean, the guy did seem to have control of so many people/creatures.

Atiaran did, however, have her own reasons for summoning TC. According to Elena, when she explains to TC the true story of Hile Troy's summoning, Atirian is so consumed with TC that she is driven to summon him as a last resort. Her life was ruined thanks in part to TC. After travelling with TC and witnessing all the harm he brought upon the Land and the people she loved, Atirian was never the same. She lived a life that was consumed with self-doubt about her abilities and knowledge in the loresraat, while Trell excelled as a rhadhameral(spelling?). She grew old, he stayed young. She suffered, her daughter suffered, Trell suffered, the Land suffered thanks to TC.
I think she demanded justice. Justice either for her or for the Land. She knew this could only be accomplished by summoning TC. She blamed him for the ills of the Land and for her sorry, bitter existence. By summoning TC, her exact intentions were unlcear. Did she want TC to save the Land--to make reprimands for the damage he had caused? Or did she want him for herself--to confront him on her own terms?

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

hile troy not leaving