Kevin's Watch

Damelon wrote: Finnish was also the language that Tolkien used for the model for the High Elven speech, Quenya.

Dr. Bradley J. Birzer wrote:Even the comparisons, though, should not lead one to conclude that Tolkien borrowed from Wagner. Rather,
Tolkien and Wagner each drew from the same sources. Namely, Wagner used the basic stories from the Austrian Nibelungenlied, the Icelandic Elder Edda and Völuspá, and the Norse Volsunga Saga. Tolkien, too, took from these sources. But, the Finnish Kalevala, various Anglo-Saxon poetry, George MacDonald, and G.K. Chesterton also served as influences on Tolkien, directly or indirectly. There were other important influences on him, not so immediately obvious. "Imagine that! You know, he used to have the most extraordinary interest in the people here in Kentucky," Allen Barnett, a Kentuckian and former classmate at Oxford said. "He could never get enough of my tales of Kentucky folk. He used to make me repeat family names like Barefoot and Boffin and Baggins and good country names like that."

the Icelandic Elder Edda

The Kalevala inspired not only Finnish nationalism but also a young English scholar and writer named J.R.R. Tolkien, in whose mind was already taking shape a magical universe that was about to be transformed by Finnish language and legend.

In a letter to W.H. Auden, on June 7, 1955, he remembered his excitement upon discovering a Finnish grammar in Exeter College Library. "It was like discovering a complete wine-cellar filled with bottles of an amazing wine of a kind and flavour never tasted before. It quite intoxicated me; and I gave up the attempt to invent an 'unrecorded' Germanic language, and my 'own language'—or series of invented languages—became heavily Finnicized [sic] in phonetic pattern and structure."

The Finnish language that so delighted the young student became the inspiration for the lyrical tongue of Middle-earth's elves. Tolkien taught himself the ancient and newly codified Finnish to develop his elfin language, and so that he could read the Kalevala in its original Finnish. This achievement opened the door to many further influences from Finnish mythology. Parallels abound between the Kalevala and Tolkien's own saga, in terms of both the characters themselves and the idea of the hero's journey.

The Kalevala features "all the themes of pre-Christian traditions, shape-shifting, mythical demons, magical plants, animals becoming human beings," says Davis, while the story itself "is fundamentally a story of a sacred object which has power, and the pursuit of the mythic heroes who seek that power, to seek a way of understanding what that power means." Davis describes the Kalevala as "a journey of the soul and a journey of the spirit—and that's obviously what drew Tolkien to it."

Tolkien readers have long seen Tolkien's bucolic vision of rural England represented in Middle-earth's Shire, and recognized English farmers in characters such as the hobbit Sam. But those who explore the Kalevala may discover much of the land of the elves, and their language, in the vast snowy spruce forests of Finnish legend.

danlo wrote:Have to agree with LOTR and Roland, mine:
A Once and Future King
The Worm Ouroboros
The Stars, My Destination

Vraith wrote:No way I can do 3..they keep winding back and back and back. You pretty much have to put western/mid-eastern mythology all the way back to Inanna and Gilgamesh in [and for at least 40 years, eastern, and indigenous north & south american too]. And for many of the best, philosophy. A much neglected source of inspiration is plays/playwrights (though their sources also wind back and back)

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:

Vraith wrote:No way I can do 3..they keep winding back and back and back. You pretty much have to put western/mid-eastern mythology all the way back to Inanna and Gilgamesh in [and for at least 40 years, eastern, and indigenous north & south american too]. And for many of the best, philosophy. A much neglected source of inspiration is plays/playwrights (though their sources also wind back and back)

Bah. Grow a pair and pick three, you dark, furry, monkey-squirrel.

However, for everyone that's ever flipped a Bester page, it's THE STARS MY DESTINATION that they'd kill to see translated. Once on a panel in Atlanta I was on, both Harlan Ellison and Ray Bradbury lamented that it'd never see the screen. Neil Gaiman loves it. John Carpenter has been heard to say that it is his, literal, dream project. It isn't hard to see why. Gully Foyle is one f--- of an anti-hero, a proto-cyberpunk badass invented long before cyberpunk was cyberpunk. A great science fiction revenge tale, a brilliant novel that is based loosely upon a story in NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC about a sailor that spent 4 months during WWII on a raft at sea, watching ship after ship ignoring his cries for help, for fear that he was a lure for a sub attack. That - and THE COUNT OF MONTE CRISTO. However, THE STARS MY DESTINATION rises above being a mere reworking, Bester's prose is so strong as to captivate you from the opening lines. This is one of the great books of the science fiction world.

danlo wrote:Here's, sort of, a synopsis of The Stars, My Destination by some guy at Ain't it Cool News back in 2006 when the film rights were optioned:

However, for everyone that's ever flipped a Bester page, it's THE STARS MY DESTINATION that they'd kill to see translated. Once on a panel in Atlanta I was on, both Harlan Ellison and Ray Bradbury lamented that it'd never see the screen. Neil Gaiman loves it. John Carpenter has been heard to say that it is his, literal, dream project. It isn't hard to see why. Gully Foyle is one f--- of an anti-hero, a proto-cyberpunk badass invented long before cyberpunk was cyberpunk. A great science fiction revenge tale, a brilliant novel that is based loosely upon a story in NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC about a sailor that spent 4 months during WWII on a raft at sea, watching ship after ship ignoring his cries for help, for fear that he was a lure for a sub attack. That - and THE COUNT OF MONTE CRISTO. However, THE STARS MY DESTINATION rises above being a mere reworking, Bester's prose is so strong as to captivate you from the opening lines. This is one of the great books of the science fiction world.

Syl wrote:Thomas Malory, Washington Irving (whose pseudonym 'William Wizard' is infinitely cooler than 'Robert Jordan'), and Irving Washington... ok, ok... Poe.

vraith... wrote:No way I can do 3..they keep winding back and back and back. You pretty much have to put western/mid-eastern mythology all the way back to Inanna and Gilgamesh in [and for at least 40 years, eastern, and indigenous north & south american too]. And for many of the best, philosophy. A much neglected source of inspiration is plays/playwrights (though their sources also wind back and back)

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:
Interesting. What year did it come out?

danlo wrote:SMD came out in 1956 the year I was born! And, I, actually think the guy who posted that at AICN was Harry (The Stainless Steel Rat) Harrison.

danlo wrote: To me to three original voices of fantasy are Lord Dunsany, William Morris and E. R. Eddison with major contributions from Poe and Peake and, possibly a nod to William Hope Hogdson.