Toll the Hounds [Spoilers]

[Onos T'oolan]

I sure wish we understood the rules better! How did Shadowthrone become the Ruler/God of Shadow without sitting on the Throne of Shadow? Did Hood become God of Death without sitting on a Throne of Death? Is there a Throne of Death? Was someone else sitting on it when the Jaghut marched to their colossal war against Death? Or did Hood lead the Jaghut against an unruled Realm of Death, and become God simply by beating everyone there into submission? But no, Tulas Shorn says they failed. They didn't defeat Death, so Hood must have become ruler another way. Like maybe finding the Throne of Death.

And either way, what was happening to the dead that Kallor - Kallor! - thought Bless you, bless you all. for having fought against Death?

[Holsety]

I sure wish we understood the rules better! How did Shadowthrone become the Ruler/God of Shadow without sitting on the Throne of Shadow?

Not really sure, but you know how ST is just the ruler of the "gatehouse" of the Hold of Shadow? And how people are always talking about how High House Shadow is just a "shadow" of the real thing? I'm guessing it's something like that.

But I'm kind of confused...didn't he sit on the throne??

OH WAIT THATS RIGHT SHADOWTHRONE IS THE THRONE THATS WHY HIS NAME IS SHADOWTHRONE! IF YOU WANT TO RULE SHADOW THEN SIT ON HIM!

(The above theory was formulated by the esteemed Iskaral Pust)

[Onos T'oolan]

How about this thought...

Hood's soul was just in Dragnipur, and his body (headless) was in Darujhistan. So could it have been his body on the Throne of Ice that Hedge saw? (I still say I'd have pushed the body out and sat in it!)

Not that I'm particularly disagreeing. It could well be the corpse Hedge and Emroth saw on the Throne of Ice is Hood's. Their conversation does give that impression. I'm just trying to figure out how it works.

[stonemaybe]

(Murrin - feel free to delete this post if you feel it goes against the spirirt of the thread...)

*YAWN*

I wish I hadn't finished this a couple of nights ago, cos I can't sleep tonight and I could do with something to make me sleepy!

Imo this would've been a much better book if he'd left out at least half of it! So so so many unfinished threads and seemingly pointless threads! I know the whole series has been a little like that but, especially in the earlier books, you got more of an impression that these unfinished businesses were momentous and that had you reading on avidly to find out more. TtH just annoyed me! I'll try and remember some of them...

-Harllo. wth was that whole thing about? what about the t'lan imass artifact things he hid under the bed? what about the t'lan imass itself? got a passing mention trapped in the finnest. so what?

-attack on inn. this seems to have been thrown in to satisfy a publisher's desire for fighting in a fantasy book. what was the point what did it lead to other than a bit of bridgeburner angst?

-knuckle guy. so what? and then hey presto his long suffering wife summons Hood. unimpressed. I know this and harlo are part of kruppe's musings (the style of which I did enjoy) but why focus so much on them? kruppe does a great job explaining random events later in the book, one off ones.

-studious lock etc. did i dose through a previous book when these characters were introduced? They seemed to have potential when rallick (?) is finding out about them but then boom! they're wiped out.

-leads me onto leff and scorch. so what? bridgeburner conversations are much funnier, why bring in these two comic characters?

-trygalle guild. it was good to get a bit more on their methods etc. but struck me as a bit contrived in the end, and far too many inconsequent 'adventures'.

-endest silann. just yawn.

-the whole plot. another one of these 'convergences'. says who? again too contrived and went out like one of those 13th munition in a box - the dud one.

-and related - traveller. why exactly the finale, why the angst afterwards? for all the pages and pages and pages build-up, i can't see a build-up to this.

-mother dark. whose attitude was a tad unbelievable when she showed up. this is the goddess that's abandoned her people for how long?

-clip.

-dying god thing. again, i felt cheated. so much build up. then ...flop.

-hounds of light. where did they spring from. and why? just so that all the superheroes who are kind of on the same side have someone to fight?

-the wagon. apsalar, pearl, ditch etc. again so much buildup. very unsatisfactory closure.

-fisher and duick. why are they even in this book?

[lucimay]

yeesh stone. go read something else. erikson's just not doing it for you.

i really enjoyed this book. i didn't have any problem with any of the stuff you mention except the hounds of light.

i loved the harllo story.

i'm about 135 pages into The Return of the Crimson Guard and...tho i dig the storylines and some of the characters, i've decided esselmont is just not as adept at telling these stories as erikson. i sorta wish erikson had written RotCG. hee.

ah well, to each his own, huh.

[stonemaybe]

yeesh stone. go read something else. erikson's just not doing it for you.

Looks that way doesn't it!? I so enjoyed the first 4-5 books though! And I still think his characters/world/races/pantheon/magic are fantastic...it's just what he's done with them recently that I don't like!

[aliantha]

Hunh. Again, I guess it's what you're reading the books for. If you're a big fan of big battles and troop movements and soldierly stuff, then TtH isn't gonna do it for ya fer sure. Like I said before, I tend to yawn through all the battle stuff, so I was fine with this book.

YMMV, tho.

[Onos T'oolan]

At least one person complained about similar things in another book. I don't have any problem with him not tying up all the loose ends within a book. The major plot lines are, and I imagine the other things will be resolved in a future book.

I agree on some of the things you didn't see any point in. Leff and Scorch being the most obvious example. I mean, really! But maybe they'll be needed later. We can always hope. If not, well, SE's given me some of my favorite characters in all literature, so I'll let him slide on a couple.

-Harllo's story was so he could get that T'lan Imass into the story. I imagine he'll do something very important. And it was better to have Harllo be a character with ties to a character in an earlier book, eh? Again, we see a rape lead to something big, whether that something is good or bad.

-The Dying God was probably another of the Crippled God's tools that didn't pan out. Like Rhulad. But, because of him, we got to learn more about Bellurdan's and Itkovian's fates.


My biggest problem is that, it seems, Traveler's only purpose was to "kill" Rake with Dragnipur. Rake maneuvered him to do it, because Rake wanted to go into the sword. Rake coulda just fallen onto the blade after killing Hood, but I guess he wanted to go out swinging. My problem, though, is that Traveler was there to kill Hood. (I guess his past connection with Hood let him know Hood was going to be there?) But he thought Hood was still, uh, alive, and that he had to go through Rake to get to him. With all he knew - about Hood in particular, and everything else in general - how in the world did he not know - feel - that Hood had been taken by Dragnipur???

[Waddley]

Can't wait for Mappo to catch up to Icarium -- and Icarium's new keeper.

What what? Which chapter do I need to re-read??

[Onos T'oolan]

No, Mappo didn't catch up to them yet. Maybe next book.

[aliantha]

Can't wait for Mappo to catch up to Icarium -- and Icarium's new keeper.

What what? Which chapter do I need to re-read??

*You* know -- Icarium's new keeper. That charming fellow who slicks back his hair with his own phlegm.

[lucimay]

taralack veed. nasty piece of work.

[aliantha]

Yup, that's him. Seemed to be maybe coming around a bit, tho, at the end of TtH. Key word there being *maybe*.

[lucimay]

can't remember. i'm on my way back thru the last 4 books. just finished bonehunters last night and restarted reapers gale.

lot of stuff i'd forgotten by the time i got round to The Return of the Crimson Guard! have you read that one yet Ali? if not PLEASE PLEASE get it quick and read it. murrin is draggin his feet. he's got it but he's not reading it and something BIG happens in it!! and i need to TALK about it!

(i suppose i could go over to the malazan board and talk about it but i hardly know anyone over there anymore)

[Onos T'oolan]

So where did you get your copy? Any chance somewhere in the US?

[lucimay]

one of these places prob'ly.

www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0593058 ... dition=new

i just went to amazon and looked it up and ordered it.

i think i got mine from a bookseller in oregon cause i knew it would come quicker (since oregon is only up the road apiece)

[I'm Murrin]

You keep going on about something big in RotCG; tTH wasn't big enough? Couple of enormous things happened in that one and I don't see you raving.

[lucimay]

not as enormous as in RotCG!

(okay well...to ME it's enormous. and maybe others will not think it so enormous, but i sure was surprised!)

[aliantha]

Haven't read RotCG yet, Luci. Hmm, maybe I'll ask for it for Yule....

(Malazan board -- bah. We're more fun to talk with anyway! )

[Waddley]

*You* know -- Icarium's new keeper. That charming fellow who slicks back his hair with his own phlegm.

Yeah, yeah. I remember him. For some reason, from your post, I thought you were talking about something that happened in this book.

Speaking of Icarium and this book... that machine in that city where they found the dying god, did that sound like Icarium's machine thingy that we last saw him in?