Kevin's Watch

If I would just effing write it.

But no, seriously, if they count, Miyazaki's Nausicaä graphic novels. Not sure about the "2nd" best part on that, even, though. Maybe like "equal to or better than SRD's."

malazan and martin are my first and seconds.
donaldson is actually my third fav.

lucimay wrote:malazan and martin are my first and seconds.
donaldson is actually my third fav.

lucimay wrote:malazan and martin are my first and seconds.
donaldson is actually my third fav.

Git the rope!

did i say the Gap Cycle is my favorite Sci Fi?

We're opposites, lucimay...go figure. TCTC is my 2nd Fav Fantasy, only behind Tolkien and I'm still not interested enough to wade through the 2nd and 3rd books to get to the point where things pick up in the Gap...

...what is, hypo-cracy? for $200, please..

Riddlemaster of Hed trilogy is also on my list. Sometimes I list Covenant and sometimes Hed as #1. They are proably tied for my favorite fantasy series.

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:But is Gormenghast really Fantasy? There's no magic...only nobility...or is it really part of a different sub-genre of Fantasy?

Certainly fantasy IMO. Very Gothic, macabre, beautifully written, the descriptive writing is wonderful, ifoccasionally verbose.

It drips atmosphere from every page, it is fantasy of the highest quality, proving you don't need magic, combat, or other fantasy staples to write a fantasy classic.

Darujhistan wrote:Certainly fantasy IMO. Very Gothic, macabre, beautifully written, the descriptive writing is wonderful, ifoccasionally verbose.

It drips atmosphere from every page, it is fantasy of the highest quality, proving you don't need magic, combat, or other fantasy staples to write a fantasy classic.

I couldn't agree more. When I was young I could hardly stand it, but I can appreciate it now for the wonderful work it is.

Perhaps we could say that Gormenghast is fantasy, but not "high fantasy" or "epic fantasy".

wayfriend wrote:Perhaps we could say that Gormenghast is fantasy, but not "high fantasy" or "epic fantasy".

I think that's a fair definition, i term it 'Gothic fantasy'

Darujhistan wrote:

wayfriend wrote:Perhaps we could say that Gormenghast is fantasy, but not "high fantasy" or "epic fantasy".

I think that's a fair definition, i term it 'Gothic fantasy'

But there's no vampires!

Stonemaybe wrote:

Darujhistan wrote:

wayfriend wrote:Perhaps we could say that Gormenghast is fantasy, but not "high fantasy" or "epic fantasy".

I think that's a fair definition, i term it 'Gothic fantasy'

But there's no vampires!

LOL!!!

Discworld series.

Bakker's "Prince of Nothing".

Ya know...I tell myslef that I'm not homophobic (and that I can spell) but I just can't seem to get very far with movies that feature gay (Bruno, Milk) or books (Prince of Nothing)...*sigh*

As far as fantasy series: the first three books of A Song of Ice and Fire, by George R.R. Martin. I thought I'd never feel that newness again after Tolkien and SRD, but reading Martin was like watching Star Wars for the first time. It was an event to me, and the gritty violence, court intrigue, surprise twists and low-magic elements appealed greatly to me. Only Tolkien handles magic with equal subtlety (Martin's so subtle it's practically non-existent).

For an individual book (even though it's sci-fi): The Left Hand of Darkness, by Ursula K. Le Guin. That single book has my favorite writing style not just of the author but of anyone. It's like flowing, amorphous rags of sunlight in some Taoist chant.

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:I wouldn't be able to read it then...I need plot to drive suspense, which drives the confliction for the characters, which allows them to become heroic in many ways, which creates love from me...

Oh, there is plot in Gormenghast. In fact, there are plotS. It's the only work of fiction I've read in which half a dozen or more characters are of roughly equal importance.

I think in essence Gormenghast is not a story. It doesn't begin and end. It's more like watching everything that happens in a certain place over a period of time. There are many characters, many plots, many events, but no real start, finish or climax. To me Steerpike is central, simply because I found him the most interesting character, and his story the most engrossing.

You say you require suspense, conflict, and heroism. There is plenty of suspense in some parts, a degree of conflict, but no heroes. None. Based on what you've said, you'd probably hate these books.

It always impressed me that Peake was trying to draw...with words. I have not heard of anyone else who has dared try this type of style...let alone succeed as Peake did... (I mean, you got to have some guff to have the title character age only a couple years from infancy in the entire novel, but it was sooo perfect! To me, all the events in the first book pointed towards Titus Groan....ahh! I get shivers thinking about it! Talk about non-mainstream! Talk about refreshing! I wish I could introduce them to more people...successfully, that is...)

Well, the whole concept was for the books to be the life of Titus, from his birth to his death. Sadly, Peake died after writing two (and planning the third).

On the subject of his writing style, the closest I've seen is Dickens. Peake is like a Dickens who has lost his grip on reality (in a good way). Gormenghast is the nightmares of Dickens.

I've met only relatively few people who have read these books, and fewer still who have taken my recommendation. One former colleague read them in the sixties, and hated them because they were "the anti-Tolkien". He'd just read LOTR, and went looking for other fantasy. What he found was Gormenghast, and he loathed the darkness, the dreamlike strangeness, the claustrophobia of the setting... He told me that where LOTR was beautiful and uplifting, Gormenghast was crushing and oppressive.

Fortunately, I like that.

Aaaaanyway...recommendations for fantasy other than Donaldson. Hmm. I don't think I've read enough to be able to say.