Kevin's Watch

I guess when you warn of the scene to potential readers, an automatic preconception kicks in: "there's no way I'm going to enjoy a book about a rapist."

Then you have to go through the rigmarole of explaining how it's not as simple as Covenant being a "rapist," how the books explore the consequences of violence, etc.

So, yeah, maybe when TCTC fans want to recommend the books, it's better to say nothing. Just give 'em the books and let 'em read.

matrixman wrote:

Demondim-spawn wrote:

ashke09 wrote:I think he means the rape.

I know that's what she meant. I couldn't resist asking due to her seeming too squeamish to say the word outright.

I think MsMary just wanted to avoid spilling that major plot point out of courtesy for those who may be browsing this forum but have not yet read the book. Heh, obviously too late now. : P

Yes, precisely, MM. I was avoiding dropping a big spoiler into the thread.

Orlion wrote:As I've reread the series, my outlook has changed, and though my attitude towards the crime of rape has changed from disgust to an outright call of crucifixtion of the offender, I am always somehow able to forgive TC.... to me, this is the principle reason why I view SRD as one of the greatest authors around, since he convinced me to forgive a crime that I usually view as damn near unforgivable. Funny how such things work

Wow, Orlion, that is totally fascinating. Thanks for sharing that.

Orlion wrote:On a related note, when I give someone the series to read and don't mention this, they don't seem to be too affected by it and continue to read, while the people I warn about it (in a misguided attempt to brace them) never seem to get to that point...curious...

Huh, well, I should mention... I heard that the hero of the books perpetrates a rape as "the first thing he does," before reading the books, and I think that was VERY helpful for me to know in advance.

I think I'm very much the sort of person who would have gotten hung up over it. Though whether I would have been able to stop reading it at that point - once I cared about what happened to Lena so much - is another question!

I had heard that the hero perpetrates a rape close to the beginning of the book and it kept me from reading the book for years.

The more I think about it, the more I'm amused that someone thought I was not mentioning the rape because I am "squeamish."

MsMary wrote:The more I think about it, the more I'm amused that someone thought I was not mentioning the rape because I am "squeamish."

"Someone" thought you were "squeamish" for the following reasons:

1. In another thread, at about the same time you here referred to Lena's rape as a "bad thing," you replied to my lighthearted question (Can White Gold Dollars buy me love?) with a flat "NO," which I took as deadly serious, on top of cold and priggish.

2. Your screenname. It's more than reminiscent (IMO) of how spinsters, maiden aunts, etc. were referred to in the 19th Century.

3. There is no #3.

Those may be super-duper-stupid reasons, based on erroneous assumptions and sterotypes, but they're the super-duper-stupid reasons why I mistook your obtuse-wording-to-avoid-a-spoiler for squeamishness.

EDIT: And of course, to TOP OFF MY IGNORANCE, I just now noticed that your screenname isn't even what I've thought it was to this point, which was MissMary, as opposed to what it is - the distinctly non-19th Century - MsMary. Good Lord!

I forgive you - you just joined, you haven't had time to get to know me.

The rape scene didn't really bother me too much, probably because I read the Gap series before I started on LFB. And I was repeatedly warned about both series ahead of time, so I knew that the later events counterbalanced the earlier events enough to make them a worthwhile read.

to tell you the truth I didnt take any of the poetry to heart when i first read these books... actually i didnt really give much thought to the poetry until 5 years or so after i read the series..too much to think about with the writing let alone the poetry.. I loved the books for what they were to me at the age of 12 and then loved them more each time I read them... when the poetry fell in line it was like reading the missing chapters of your favorite book.

I never thought much about the title of LFB.. I was very happy that Foul's name was one of many, The Despiser or Fangthane or the Render, Corruption and the Grey Slayer in particular as my way of thinking about "the entity formerly known as Lord Foul."

It could have been much much worse... he could have been named
Lord Angreh , Lord Smiteus, Lord Putrescen, or Lord Misbehavin.

In fact, it took me a couple reads to realize the Illearth War was in fact not the Ille Arth War pronounced Illy Arth war... ....it made much more sense to me when i realized it was the ILL Earth War.

My Wife wont read the books mostly because shes not much of a novel reader... she uses some of my screen names one of which is Thomas Covenant WGW.... she said..who is TC...I laughed knowing her hatred of rapists and said..... how do I say this.... "he's a Leper who gets pulled into a land where he Rapes a girl on his first day there...... she said WTF...I have been using that as my screen name!!! ...she was a little better off when i told her he paid for his crime and saved the world.... knowing she will never read it I didtnt spoil anything for her...

Blackhawk wrote:In fact, it took me a couple reads to realize the Illearth War was in fact not the Ille Arth War pronounced Illy Arth war... ....it made much more sense to me when i realized it was the ILL Earth War.

Welcome to the Illy-Arth fan club! You're not the only one...

wayfriend wrote:

Blackhawk wrote:In fact, it took me a couple reads to realize the Illearth War was in fact not the Ille Arth War pronounced Illy Arth war... ....it made much more sense to me when i realized it was the ILL Earth War.

Welcome to the Illy-Arth fan club! You're not the only one...

LOL glad im not the only one.

Blackhawk wrote:

wayfriend wrote:

Blackhawk wrote:In fact, it took me a couple reads to realize the Illearth War was in fact not the Ille Arth War pronounced Illy Arth war... ....it made much more sense to me when i realized it was the ILL Earth War.

Welcome to the Illy-Arth fan club! You're not the only one...

LOL glad im not the only one.

You certainly aren't! I also am a member.

I fail to see how anyone could have this problem beyond the first mention of the Illearth Stone in the body of the book.

Did you folks also go through the whole book thinking it was the Ille Arth Stone?

Yes.
Part of the problem for me was that I saw the movie "Lilo and Stitch" before I read TIW.

I had the problem for years before a friend I had just introduced to the chronicles pointed out what I obviously should have known all along I felt like quite the moron...

Nice new Avatar, by the way, Demondim-spawn!

That's okay, I still have no idea how to pronounce "Ranyhyn."

I'm sure it's wrong, but I just go with "Rohn-Yin" and leave it at that.

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And thanks for the compliment on the new Avatar. Using that "Asshole Leper Hero" avatar for as long as I did is unusual for me. I generally change avatars more often than I change my underdrawers.

I always pronounced it ILL Earth until I bought it from a bookstore and the owner told me it was pronounced Illy Arth! Fortunately I stuck to the original pronunciation...

And Ranyhyn - I only recently learnt how to spell it. Have always pronounced it RAN HIN. I just know it's wrong - but it's hard to change....

I've always pronounced Ranyhyn as Ran-i-hin, with a short 'i' sound in the middle syllable.

According to audiobook narrator Scott Brick, he went to SRD (straight to the horse's mouth, so to speak) for pronunciations of the many unique words in TCTC. Ranyhyn is pronounced RAH-nuh-hin.

For more on Scott Brick's "how do you say this" interviews with SRD (both Scott's written blog about this process and his reading of that blog so you can hear him saying many of the word we've stumbled over, including the Words of Power and the invocation of the Ranyhyn), visit:

www.scottbrickpresents.com/wordpress/20 ... nabridged/

Yeah, in my experience it's the rape right at the beginning that puts people off. It put me off the first time to be honest, but soon I realised it was fairly essential to the plot.