Kevin's Watch

The Dreaming wrote: I need to find a way to see Triumph of the Will in psuedo-secrecy.

A year or so ago, someone had uploaded the whole thing to youtube. It may still be there. Despite the ugliness of what it supports, it really does deserve its reputation as a great film. The opening sequence of Hitler's plane travelling to Nuremeberg is jaw-dropping, powerful, and starkly beautiful. Would have been even better had the plane crashed, but, oh well...

Montresor wrote:The opening sequence of Hitler's plane travelling to Nuremeberg is jaw-dropping, powerful, and starkly beautiful. Would have been even better had the plane crashed, but, oh well...

I'd also like to see Triumph of the Will in its entirety. It would probably be an uncomfortable but very fascinating viewing experience.

Since we're on this subject, have any of you seen The Wonderful, Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl? www.imdb.com/title/tt0107472/

It's an amazing, epic 3-hour documentary. It was made in 1993 when Riefenstahl was still alive, so she was extensively interviewed. I got to see it at an independent movie house at the time.

Das Boot (Unless Lore has already mentioned it. )

--A

matrixman wrote: Since we're on this subject, have any of you seen The Wonderful, Horrible Life of Leni Riefenstahl? www.imdb.com/title/tt0107472/

It's an amazing, epic 3-hour documentary. It was made in 1993 when Riefenstahl was still alive, so she was extensively interviewed. I got to see it at an independent movie house at the time.

I distinctly remember reading a newspaper article about that film while I was in High School. Alas, I have yet to see it anyway...

Not so sure on British films, although I remember the drama Atonement (not a war film!) having a very good portrayal of Dunkirk and the early war years from a British civilian and soldier point of view.

First two are American produced, blockbuster style war films. Second two are German produced, grueling dramas.

Letters from Iwo Jima. Japanese with subs (for gods sake don't watch the dubbed version!!). Although technically American produced and directed (the companion film of Clint Eastwood's Flags of our Fathers), I enjoyed it.

Defiance. English (with a good deal of Russian). Recently released (based on a) true story of the Bielski brother's resistance in Poland/Belorussia. The film is flawed both technically and historically but is a must watch for anyone who believes that all Jews went quietly to the death camps. Perhaps it goes too far the other way though. Daniel Craig perpetually wears an MP40 and generally tries to look badass but in the end fails. The penultimate fight where civilians face off against a Panzer III and Panzergrenadier detachment is obviously fabricated and feels fake. However for a blockbuster adaption i suppose such things are necessary!

The Counterfeiters. German with Subs. I suppose this counts as a "Holocaust film" rather than a "War film", but it is an excellent (true) depiction of the Nazi attempt to flood the Allies economy with masses of forged notes, using Jewish bankers and criminals to forge notes in concentration camps. Excellent depictions of Jewish resistance within the camps.

Downfall (Der Untergang). German with subs. Anyone familiar with the "Hitler meme" will know at least one scene from this film. The true story of the last days in the Fuhrer bunker.

Das Boot is excellent. I agree that Triumph of the Will is an amazing piece of film. The flight scene depicts Hitler as literally and figuratively descending from the heavens, and the aerial shots would have been that much more effective in 1936, when the majority of Germany/Western world had never seen the world from a birds eye view. A masterpiece of evil, unlike Mein Kampf, which is droll and unfocused evil.

It's not a fictionalisation, and it's not about Britain, but I wopuld highly recommend the Japanese Documentary Japanese Devils. It's very simply presented - just interviews with 14 men who served in the Japanese army, and they talk about their war time experiences for three hours (it's a long film). They start out coming across as the sort of old man you might sit next to at a bus top who makes pleasant conversation, then they tell the viewer about the numerous atrocities they committed during the war. The focus is on China, and they mostly discus what they did to Chinese peasants (these men have devoted their lives to travelling Japan and the Asia, telling their stories as a warning for future generations not to do as they did).

This film is not for the squeemish, as the accounts they give are extreme. The strongest impression I got from the film was the orinariness of the men; the point being that in the right circumstances, where we had been dehumanised enough, anyone of us could be capable of the vilest deeds. A truly great and very moving film.

Avatar wrote:Das Boot (Unless Lore has already mentioned it. )

--A

I did indeed mention it.

I only read some of the first page, and wondered why it hadn't been mentioned. Made the post, realised I hadn't read the whole thread, and edited in my addendum.

--A

one has just crossed my 'radar' ... although partially United-Statesian, it is also part Canadian: "The Devil's Brigade" 1968 (I think).
Based on real group of elite US and Canadian soldiers who where trained special to go in to 'impossible' situations and capture positions. I am aware of the historical group (which was dubbed, "The Black Devils" by the Germans) but have no idea what this movie is like.
sounds interesting... anyone seen it? Sounds like a "Dirty Dozen" kinda movie...

Usivius wrote:one has just crossed my 'radar' ... although partially United-Statesian, it is also part Canadian: "The Devil's Brigade" 1968 (I think).
Based on real group of elite US and Canadian soldiers who where trained special to go in to 'impossible' situations and capture positions. I am aware of the historical group (which was dubbed, "The Black Devils" by the Germans) but have no idea what this movie is like.
sounds interesting... anyone seen it? Sounds like a "Dirty Dozen" kinda movie...

I saw about 20 minutes of it many years ago, staying up one night. I didn't care to watch anymore of me, as it had me profoundly non-plussed.

Stone Magnet wrote: Defiance. English (with a good deal of Russian). Recently released (based on a) true story of the Bielski brother's resistance in Poland/Belorussia. The film is flawed both technically and historically but is a must watch for anyone who believes that all Jews went quietly to the death camps. Perhaps it goes too far the other way though. Daniel Craig perpetually wears an MP40 and generally tries to look badass but in the end fails. The penultimate fight where civilians face off against a Panzer III and Panzergrenadier detachment is obviously fabricated and feels fake. However for a blockbuster adaption i suppose such things are necessary!

I don't remember if I mentioned or not, but I finally got around to watching this. Cemented my feelings about Daniel Craig... he's a fine actor, and more than just a good 007.

Stone Magnet wrote:The Counterfeiters. German with Subs. I suppose this counts as a "Holocaust film" rather than a "War film", but it is an excellent (true) depiction of the Nazi attempt to flood the Allies economy with masses of forged notes, using Jewish bankers and criminals to forge notes in concentration camps. Excellent depictions of Jewish resistance within the camps.

I just watched this tonight. Quite a good movie, and Karl Markovics does an amazing job as Sorowitsch. Quite an impressive story, and one that I wasn't aware of before.

Two classics of british cinema "The Dam Busters" and "Battle of the River Plate", a bit stodgy but very accurate (unlike a certain place on the west coast of the US ). In particular, watch the characters in the background of the bridge scenes of River Plate doing exactly what they doing in the real event.

Rigel wrote: I don't remember if I mentioned or not, but I finally got around to watching this. Cemented my feelings about Daniel Craig... he's a fine actor, and more than just a good 007.

I just watched this tonight. Quite a good movie, and Karl Markovics does an amazing job as Sorowitsch. Quite an impressive story, and one that I wasn't aware of before.

Glad you enjoyed them. Check out Craig's performance in Munich (incidentally, also playing a staunch Jewish "paramilitary" fighter) if you liked Defiance.

3rd warrior on the left wrote:Two classics of british cinema "The Dam Busters" and "Battle of the River Plate", a bit stodgy but very accurate (unlike a certain place on the west coast of the US ). In particular, watch the characters in the background of the bridge scenes of River Plate doing exactly what they doing in the real event.

The Dam Busters, while a truly great war film, isn't very accurate (though better than most Hollywood attempts). Granted the Upkeep bomb was still classified when they made the film in the 50's (that explains their spherical appearance), still there are plenty of fuzzy spots. I recently went to talk by Les Munro, the last living pilot who flew on the raid, who pointed out several other inaccuracies in the film, (including the Lanc that crashes into the hill). At 93 he was still sharp as a tack and it was a pleasure to talk to. When I asked him how he found the Lancaster to fly compared to the other types he'd had experience in (Wellingtons mostly) he described it almost exactly as my grandfather described it: "A lovely aircraft. It had no vices, none at all. Very forgiving to fly, plenty of power for such a heavy aircraft. Absolutely wonderful." Lucky too, as their training involved steep, high speed dives onto the runway from 1000ft down to a sharp pull up at 60ft...a ridiculous feat for a four-engined heavy.

Rigel wrote: Ideally, I'd prefer something that covers the British part (since that's what I'm reading about now), but anything about the war in Europe would be good.

Brilliant films that haven't been mentioned yet are:

One of Our Aircraft is Missing, 1942, by Michael Powell, possibly Britain's greatest ever film director, about a British Bomber crew trying to escape through Nazi occupied France after they're shot down.

Stalingrad 1993, a harrowing German film showing the horror of the battle from the point of view of some decent german soldiers.

Come and See One of the greatest films ever made - a 1985 Soviet film about a young man who joins a hopelessly under-prepared resistance group in Belarus and see the horrors of Nazism first hand.

The Hill 1965 - Sean Connery's best film about a brutal British militray prison in the desert.

Ice Cold in Alex 1958, a fine British film about soldiers fleeing the Germans in the desert in an ambulance.


Rome, Open City a realist masterpiece from Italy made in 1945.

Went the Day Well? 1942 british film about an ordinary village fighting back against German paratroopers in an imagined attack on the UK.

The Mackenzie Break 1970, excellent, little known british film about a camp in rural Scotland for maximum security Nazi prisoners.