Kevin's Watch

earthbrah wrote:Regarding my previous post, I have realized something (possibly):

The Ramen have long called the Despiser Fangthane the Render. Do they do this because their people have a long-lived memory of the rending of Kelebhrabanal by Foul? Mahrtiir's story makes pretty clear that they don't actually know how Kelenbhrabanal was killed, but rather deduce it from the Ranyhyn's particular fear of the lurker.

And IF the father of horses was rent, what of the remnants of his spirit? If we're to accept what is suggested, then the lurker may have been Foul's tool to rend Kelenbhrabanal's spirit. Perhaps the Ranyhyn are afraid of the lurker because it represents their unconfronted grief with the loss of their ancient father...

Anyway, perhaps there is more to this idea of Kelenbhrabanal's rending...and did you notice that the Ranyhyn that bears Jeremiah is named Khelen (which is damn close to Kelen)? That's too close to be a coincidence...

!!

...that there is a major downside for Foul with the awakening of the Worm, and the Lurker is representative of that downside.

This makes me think the list of bad guys will dwindle as the final book moves on, because bad and good won't be relevant - self interest and survival will be.

...anything that becomes aware of what the Worm will mean for them would in theory turn away from the Despiser, and fight for its life. Even the Sandgorgons, raver malice or not, wish to live on I would assume.

...and what of the Ravers? Are they in belief that they will be released as Foul would by the destruction of the Arch? I'm not buying it - Foul is eternal, while the Ravers from what I remember do have their origins from the Earth, despite their spirit immortality.

In summary, isn't there a point where all of Foul's servants realize they've been duped, ala the Ur-viles? The Despiser's contempt for all things may hurt him in the end, I believe.

dlbpharmd wrote:
SRD will never, ever, write about a Raman turning against the Land. Pahni may be depressed, but she'll stay a good guy.

She could still be possessed by moksha who has been suspiciously absent from the happenings so far (apart from that interlude with the kresh).

ssherman12 wrote:...that there is a major downside for Foul with the awakening of the Worm, and the Lurker is representative of that downside.

This makes me think the list of bad guys will dwindle as the final book moves on, because bad and good won't be relevant - self interest and survival will be.

...anything that becomes aware of what the Worm will mean for them would in theory turn away from the Despiser, and fight for its life. Even the Sandgorgons, raver malice or not, wish to live on I would assume.

...and what of the Ravers? Are they in belief that they will be released as Foul would by the destruction of the Arch? I'm not buying it - Foul is eternal, while the Ravers from what I remember do have their origins from the Earth, despite their spirit immortality.

In summary, isn't there a point where all of Foul's servants realize they've been duped, ala the Ur-viles? The Despiser's contempt for all things may hurt him in the end, I believe.

I think it's been suggested (possibly when one of the giants (Grueburn?) was translating the ur-viles, that the Ravers have gone beyond that point; they no longer have any concept of their own existence except in terms of obeying Foul. I mean they enjoy the corruption and despite and so on, but it's all based on total subservience.

Good Guys:
* Linden and Covenant
* Stave
* Mahrtiir
* Bhapa & Pahni
* The Swordmainnir
* The Humbled (they do serve TC.)
* Jeremiah
* the Rahnyhn
* Demondim-spawn
* the Lurker
* Jheherrin/sur-jheherrin
* the Feroce - though the 'illearth stone-esqeness' of their powers concern me.
* the Dead

Bad Guys:
* Fangthane
* Kastenessen
* Roger
* the skurj (only because they are controlled by Kasty)
* the Sandgorgons (as they are controlled by a Raver)
* the other two Ravers
* Cavewights? Are they compelled by Foul / Roger?

Neither 'bad' or 'good' but dangerous.
* the Masters. I expect them to come around, though there have been many mentions of them serving the Grey Slayer.
* the Elohim. Always been against Linden's intentions, but soley out of self-preservation, and thusly not 'bad'.
* Longwrath. Is in the Sarangrave, apparently. Can his blade fight the Skurj? I hope he will be redeemed.
* the Worm of the World's End. Has the potential to cause the world's destruction. But any claim it is 'bad' or 'evil' is blatantly laughable.
* SHE. Inherently dangerous. Has been manipulated by the Render. But I'm not convinced is 'bad', merely just a being wracked by torment and betrayal. Definately not a 'minion' of the Despiser, just acts according to her nature.
* the Insequent.

earthbrah wrote:Regarding my previous post, I have realized something (possibly):

The Ramen have long called the Despiser Fangthane the Render. Do they do this because their people have a long-lived memory of the rending of Kelebhrabanal by Foul? Mahrtiir's story makes pretty clear that they don't actually know how Kelenbhrabanal was killed, but rather deduce it from the Ranyhyn's particular fear of the lurker.

And IF the father of horses was rent, what of the remnants of his spirit? If we're to accept what is suggested, then the lurker may have been Foul's tool to rend Kelenbhrabanal's spirit. Perhaps the Ranyhyn are afraid of the lurker because it represents their unconfronted grief with the loss of their ancient father...

Anyway, perhaps there is more to this idea of Kelenbhrabanal's rending...and did you notice that the Ranyhyn that bears Jeremiah is named Khelen (which is damn close to Kelen)? That's too close to be a coincidence...

I don't subscribe to this theory.
The Ramen call the Grey Slayer the Render, yes. They call the demondim the Teeth of the Render.
And it is entirely possible that Horrim Carabal was the 'tool' used by Fangthane to bring about Kelenbhrabanal's death.
Does the term 'rent' always imply the continuation of the victim's spirit or mind within the 'render'? I'm not convinced. Kelenbhrabanal was a great horse, an embodiment of earthpower. The rent raver, however, was a being of a completely different nature. Perhaps the nature of the ravers it what is able to influence their 'renders' after they have been rent.
Furthermore, had the spirit of this great horse been kept alive in the Lurker, the way the Raver is in the Sandgorgons, I believe it would inspire a different reaction in the Ranyhyn than terror.
Also, what you say about the Ranyhyn and their unconfronted grief is wrong. They all share and express their grief during their horserites.

What I've noticed about the deaths, is that they were mostly all people from the Land's Earth who could wield Earthpower.

Each Insequent who helps Linden, in whatever way has died.
Anele, who was rife with Earthpower died, also a wielder of the SOL
Liand who could use the Sunstone, and the staff died.
The Elohim...going

TC LA JA--they will all be dead, as they are dead in the real world.

Its like whoever will be left, will be normal average people.
Not a bad thing, but something worth noting.

* Longwrath (if the Elohim die, would his madness be lifted?)

Wow! If SRD does not address this, it will be a MAJOR flaw in LD!

SRD will never, ever, write about a Raman turning against the Land. Pahni may be depressed, but she'll stay a good guy.

Maybe not against the Land, but I could easily see her going Bainbridge Percy (the world according to Garp) on Linden in the end!

ssherman12 wrote:...that there is a major downside for Foul with the awakening of the Worm, and the Lurker is representative of that downside.

This makes me think the list of bad guys will dwindle as the final book moves on, because bad and good won't be relevant - self interest and survival will be.

...anything that becomes aware of what the Worm will mean for them would in theory turn away from the Despiser, and fight for its life. Even the Sandgorgons, raver malice or not, wish to live on I would assume.

...and what of the Ravers? Are they in belief that they will be released as Foul would by the destruction of the Arch? I'm not buying it - Foul is eternal, while the Ravers from what I remember do have their origins from the Earth, despite their spirit immortality.

In summary, isn't there a point where all of Foul's servants realize they've been duped, ala the Ur-viles? The Despiser's contempt for all things may hurt him in the end, I believe.

salient point!