Kevin's Watch

Yes, at the battle of First Woodhelven, the Harrow had already promised not to attempt Linden's life or her possessions. So the ur-viles would not have attacked him to protect Linden. However, he had not yet agreed to help Linden - perhaps this was the significant difference. Or perhaps the answer lies in who the Harrow was attacking at that time.

As for the Ardent, in some obscure way which I am sure makes sense to other Indequent, he interfered with the Harrow's intentions. He explains it rather well, I think.

First, he "imposed" upon the Harrow by helping Linden bargain with him. This could have been interference, but it was to be balanced by aiding the Harrow once the bargain was made. The balance kept it from being the true interference which the Insequent do not tolerate.

"To lessen the peril, therefore, the geas was made twofold, first to impose the lady’s interpretation of his oath upon the Harrow, and thereafter to assist in the fruition of his designs. By such aid, the Insequent hoped to appease or counteract any violation of the most necessary stricture of our lives."

By failing to aid the Harrow, whether or not it was innocent or understandable, the balance was lost, and the imposition tilted into the red zone. It became interference.

"Lost among the entrancements of the Viles, and appalled by the horrors of the Lost Deep, I left the Harrow to confront his foes without my aid. Thus I permitted his death and the defeat of his designs. By timidity and weakness, I created true interference from the sophistry of imposition."

I am not sure that I follow this balancing act, but taking that as a given, the rest of it unfolds logically. Perhaps this "counteract" is based on some notion that, by providing aid, the Harrow would be as able to follow his intentions as well as if the Ardent had never interfered at all. That the "pros" of having the Ardent's help counteracted the "cons" of Linden having a better bargain.

Maybe this is just another way of saying, if the Ardent hadn't meddled in Linden's bargain with the Harrow, the Harrow would not have died. Linden would not have had any companions, and so she would not have been able to let Roger find them.

This has been nagging at me for some time:

Panting, the Ardent said hoarsely, "Timewarden".
Covenant moved closer. "Yes?"
Stretched thin with effort, the Ardent urged as clearly as he could, "Remembere Mishio Massima".
Covenant stared. "Is that your true name?"
Could he be invoked? Even when he was so close to collapse?
The dying man gave a cracked laugh. "It is my steed".

Why was it so important that TC should remember the name of the Ardent's horse? I expected MM to turn up with the Ranyn when TC went off, but it was the Harrow's horse that they brought with them.

Iolanthe wrote:This has been nagging at me for some time:

Panting, the Ardent said hoarsely, "Timewarden".
Covenant moved closer. "Yes?"
Stretched thin with effort, the Ardent urged as clearly as he could, "Remembere Mishio Massima".
Covenant stared. "Is that your true name?"
Could he be invoked? Even when he was so close to collapse?
The dying man gave a cracked laugh. "It is my steed".

Why was it so important that TC should remember the name of the Ardent's horse? I expected MM to turn up with the Ranyn when TC went off, but it was the Harrow's horse that they brought with them.

Well I predict there is going to be a desperate need for speed, the Ardent knew the Harrow's horse would likely be dead already, and TC won't ride Rhan. of course. And considering the Ardent's passion for the unique, I suspect special attributes in his "steed." [though initially I kinda expected MM where you did, since it wasn't there's something even more important ahead...and TC is very fond of avoiding using stuff till absolute necessity drives him.]
Heh...that seems obvious and completely unhelpful at the same time. "Why's he need the mounts name?"
"Cuz he's gonna need a mount."
"Well...duh, vraith...gonna need it for WHAT?"
"Hell if I know."
"Thanks for nothing."

Vraith wrote:Heh...that seems obvious and completely unhelpful at the same time. "Why's he need the mounts name?"
"Cuz he's gonna need a mount."
"Well...duh, vraith...gonna need it for WHAT?"
"Hell if I know."
"Thanks for nothing."

No, that's OK Vraith. I tend to type as I think too, then I say stupid things - and that's not to say that what you said was stupid.

It seemed to me that the way that bit was written, the Ardent went to a lot of effort to give TC the name of his horse. Of course, now TC does need a horse. It hadn't occurred to me that the Ardent's horse might have special qualities. As to what he's going to need it for, I wouldn't expect anyone to know that, so you may well ask why did I put the question in the first place? It just seemed important, that's all.

I think otherwise on this.

I think that the Ardent, who was literally cracking up at this point, merely wanted some kudos for his equine companion. Like he's saying, thank you, thank you, but I couldn't have done it without my donkey.

Maybe, just maybe, it was a hint for something a bit more important. He's telling Covenant to remember that even the smallest of one's friends, playing the least heroic of parts, can contribute a critical piece to any venture.

wayfriend wrote: I think that the Ardent, who was literally cracking up at this point, merely wanted some kudos for his equine companion. Like he's saying, thank you, thank you, but I couldn't have done it without my donkey.

That would be kinda funny, and kinda in character for the Ardent...but I really think
HAH...dueling predictions! I believe that poor wreck of a mount will be vital.

Seeing as the Rahnihin are able to command other horses to do their bidding, as they did with the Harrow's horse, knowing the name of the Ardent's name seems unnecessary.

So maybe Wayfriend is right about this.

Well, I did wonder why TC needed to know the horse's name, for the same reason. I still think that it's important though. We shall have to wait and see. Perhaps it had a glamour upon it and it was something else all the time

Iolanthe wrote:Well, I did wonder why TC needed to know the horse's name, for the same reason. I still think that it's important though. We shall have to wait and see. Perhaps it had a glamour upon it and it was something else all the time

Maybe she will be like Balaam's donkey and saying her name will allow her to speak her mind.

Maybe at some point Thomas Covenant will be trying to break into the Ardent's computer, and, staring at the login prompt, wonder: "What the hell would the Ardent use for a password?"

He told him the name of his horse in order for TC to return from confronting Joan. The Insequent's augury must have given glimpses of future events. In this case, success and refusal to ride Ranyhyn.

By using its name, the horse is possibly bound to obey the rider since names have such power over the Insequent. There is no need for compulsion ala the Harrow's.

shadowbinding shoe wrote: So maybe Wayfriend is right about this.

Nope, I'd bet anything. Don't let the description fool you...MM is special...catching up to the rest of the group as Prover suggests may be the only task required, but that is vital, and no ordinary beast could arrive in time nor keep up with the Rhan on the ensuing ride. And they also have to outrun what I assume is the approaching Worm.
And I still don't see it in the Ardent's character to keep a perfectly ordinary [actually, less than ordinary IIR the description correctly] critter as mount/companion. Even if it wasn't standard so far for almost everything every Insequent possesses to be significant and symbolic of themselves.
But we'll see.

Prover of Life wrote:He told him the name of his horse in order for TC to return from confronting Joan...........By using its name, the horse is possibly bound to obey the rider since names have such power over the Insequent. There is no need for compulsion ala the Harrow's.

OK, but I can't recall TC having to know the name of the Harrow's horse, the Ranyhyn just brought him. There has to be some special reason why TC has to remember his name.

It was the Ranyhyn themselves who compelled the Harrow's horse, with help from the little men with the green flames (can't remember their name), not TC.

Iolanthe wrote:with help from the little men with the green flames (can't remember their name), not TC.

They were called the Feroce.

Zorm wrote:

Iolanthe wrote:with help from the little men with the green flames (can't remember their name), not TC.

They were called the Feroce.

It wasn't a tomte? Now I am confused.

Ananda wrote:

Zorm wrote:

Iolanthe wrote:with help from the little men with the green flames (can't remember their name), not TC.

They were called the Feroce.

It wasn't a tomte? Now I am confused.

Originally, yes, but the Lurker's neighbor Sårangravnäcken snacked on them for breakfast. He later died of acid poisoning while trying to sate his hunger with the other kind.

Iolanthe wrote:

Prover of Life wrote:He told him the name of his horse in order for TC to return from confronting Joan...........By using its name, the horse is possibly bound to obey the rider since names have such power over the Insequent. There is no need for compulsion ala the Harrow's.

OK, but I can't recall TC having to know the name of the Harrow's horse, the Ranyhyn just brought him. There has to be some special reason why TC has to remember his name.

It was the Ranyhyn themselves who compelled the Harrow's horse, with help from the little men with the green flames (can't remember their name), not TC.

By using its name, the horse is possibly bound to obey the rider since names have such power over the Insequent.

This picture reminded me somehow of 'The Ardent'...

www.sherpa.nu/preview/rork0_preview.jpg