Kevin's Watch

It is strange that the entire deep is warded by one gate, but the deep is presumably not a natural space, not just a big cave, and has been made to have only one entrance.

I guess tripping the ward wakes the bane, which I suppose would make elohim retreat at least.

hmm...well, my impression was that the Viles protection was a sort of web-work covering all the deep, and the gate was the nexus where it could be unwoven/opened/disarmed. And it was put where it was [narrow bridge, SHE nearby] because it would that way, being hazardous, constantly remind the Viles when they left and returned to take care...that participating in the world was innately/always hazardous.
Also, that it was Jerry's particular [and "outsider"] powers that enabled passing the web without setting it off.

That sounds about right.

Vraith wrote:hmm...well, my impression was that the Viles protection was a sort of web-work covering all the deep, and the gate was the nexus where it could be unwoven/opened/disarmed. And it was put where it was [narrow bridge, SHE nearby] because it would that way, being hazardous, constantly remind the Viles when they left and returned to take care...that participating in the world was innately/always hazardous.
Also, that it was Jerry's particular [and "outsider"] powers that enabled passing the web without setting it off.

I think the web just covered the doorway, and the trap covered the bridge to the halfway mark.

If that's right then the rest of the deep has to be inaccessable for other reasons (like it's in another dimension or something).

Simanent wrote:If that's right then the rest of the deep has to be inaccessable for other reasons (like it's in another dimension or something).

Is it perhaps similar then to Damelons Door under Skyweir? The only way to get in and out is through that door. Therefore none, not even the Elohm could enter. They need a key, either knowledge of the 'password' or in the case of skyweir a way and a door (Amok).

There have been many times that secret doors and entry ways have been mentioned and nearly all of them have either required a specific item (or person) and/or knowledge....

Just my two penneth!

Simanent wrote:It is strange that the entire deep is warded by one gate, but the deep is presumably not a natural space, not just a big cave, and has been made to have only one entrance.

I guess tripping the ward wakes the bane, which I suppose would make elohim retreat at least.

Well, the Elohim could simply transport themselves out of reach of the Bane - as did Esmer when he was pushed - so I'm not sure they had that much reason to fear it?

Clearly they either couldn't access the Lost Deep at all due to the Vile's magic (until Linden opened the gate) OR they simply didn't access it because they couldn't "see" Croyemiah in there (and couldn't have accessed his particular cave anyway), but I'm not sure that AATE provides an answer.

The Harrow said (and we can decide for ourselves if we believe him) that there were those who knew where Croyemiah was and couldn't get there, and those who could get there but didn't know where to go. If we can decide who those people were it might help.

Verement wrote:

Simanent wrote:If that's right then the rest of the deep has to be inaccessable for other reasons (like it's in another dimension or something).

Is it perhaps similar then to Damelons Door under Skyweir? The only way to get in and out is through that door. Therefore none, not even the Elohm could enter. They need a key, either knowledge of the 'password' or in the case of skyweir a way and a door (Amok).

There have been many times that secret doors and entry ways have been mentioned and nearly all of them have either required a specific item (or person) and/or knowledge....

Just my two penneth!

There is a clear similarity here, but it is weird why a place can only be accessable from one entrance to beings who can teleport. Either the whole location is warded except at the entrance (Vraith suggested this I believe) or the location doesn't have a normal existence and location (like the black lodge in Twin Peaks).

Simanent wrote:The Harrow said (and we can decide for ourselves if we believe him) that there were those who knew where Croyemiah was and couldn't get there, and those who could get there but didn't know where to go. If we can decide who those people were it might help.

Yes, I recall that now. Didn't he say it in contradistinction to his own stated position that he was the only one that both knew where J was and could transport Linden to him? (Which arguably turned out to be false as he couldn't actually unlock the portal himself?)

Guesses on the Harrow's suggestion:

Knew but couldn't get there = Roger, Kastenessen, Ur-viles, Waynhim
Could transport there but didn't know = damned if I know!

I assumed that the construct made it impossible for any elohim to know where jeremiah was at all, not just to directly perceive him. So, even if Roger dropped Jeremiah off in the cave, as soon as the construct went up, Roger would forget where he had left Jeremiah.

Fuzzy_Logic wrote:I assumed that the construct made it impossible for any elohim to know where jeremiah was at all, not just to directly perceive him. So, even if Roger dropped Jeremiah off in the cave, as soon as the construct went up, Roger would forget where he had left Jeremiah.

I actually reread that section only this afternoon - and then left AATE at the garage when I picked up my car from its MOT...! But the Harrow, when chatting to the Croyel, makes it clear that (at least as far as he's concerned) Roger knows exactly where Croyemiah is but is simply barred from the cave due to the construct.

That would make sense, especially of Roger being first to arrive when the construct is damaged.

Reading all this had given me a desire to know more about the Croyel.. I wonder what word would signify a group of Croyel?
Anyway.. Aside from Roger who I believe would have already known where Croyemiah was, I imagine that the Elohim would have been very happy for him to stay there.

ninjaboy wrote:Reading all this had given me a desire to know more about the Croyel.. I wonder what word would signify a group of Croyel?
Anyway.. Aside from Roger who I believe would have already known where Croyemiah was, I imagine that the Elohim would have been very happy for him to stay there.

A group of croyel? Egad! The very idea makes me want to eat my own face.

Vraith wrote:hmm...well, my impression was that the Viles protection was a sort of web-work covering all the deep, and the gate was the nexus where it could be unwoven/opened/disarmed. And it was put where it was [narrow bridge, SHE nearby] because it would that way, being hazardous, constantly remind the Viles when they left and returned to take care...that participating in the world was innately/always hazardous.
Also, that it was Jerry's particular [and "outsider"] powers that enabled passing the web without setting it off.

Recall that in FR the Harrow defeated the Demondim using exactly the same technique used by Linden to defeat the web. What I don't understand is why a horde of Demondim were so easy to defeat? Maybe it's that he was given more time.