first 200 pages

[thewormoftheworld'send]

SRD has had the idea for these Last Chronicles in his head for a couple decades, so it's just possible that his name for this bane actually precedes Rowling's use of it in her story.

Hrm, yes, but only a general outline of the story. And I don't think it was a She in the Potter stories, but a male villain. Furthermore, the "x-must-not-be-named" trope is older than either one of these authors.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Oh yes, tropes abound in fantasy. Could this have been stolen/taken/borrowed from Rowling?

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NotQuiteDead

The villain is never quite dead. Both Foul and Voldemort keep bouncing right back for more.

But no, this was used before Rowling, so apparently she stole/took/borrowed it from Donaldson. Correct? Or do they both keep an encyclopedia of tropes in their laps while writing?

[earthbrah]

Ok, now it seems that you are referring to two tropes: the use of the HeWhoMustNotBeNamed vs. SheWhoMustNotBeNamed, and the villain or dark enemy who keeps rebounding from defeats. They both seem old to me, and not just within fantasy literature. You've got me thinking about this now, Worm...

I bet SRD would answer the question (through the GI) of roughly when he had envisioned the character and name for She. Not that I think either of them stole the idea from the other...but just for edification...

And thanks for the link--cool site.

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Ok, now it seems that you are referring to two tropes: the use of the HeWhoMustNotBeNamed vs. SheWhoMustNotBeNamed, and the villain or dark enemy who keeps rebounding from defeats. They both seem old to me, and not just within fantasy literature. You've got me thinking about this now, Worm...

I bet SRD would answer the question (through the GI) of roughly when he had envisioned the character and name for She. Not that I think either of them stole the idea from the other...but just for edification...

And thanks for the link--cool site.

YW. The trope (borrowed/stolen/coincidental?) examples could go on and on. And for a non-trope, did Donaldson take the name Galt from an Ayn Rand novel? He adamantly says he did not, and never would have. And yet I've read an older comment on the Watch stating that Donaldson obviously was influenced by Rand, when in fact the two writers could not be more dissimilar. Aren't some rather quick assumptions being made here?

(I suspect that Donaldson gave Galt a particularly painful death for this very reason, even if it was a heroic end.)

The problem with such an analysis is that one begins to reduce a novel to tropes, or to other odds and ends that seem to have their influences from some other author.

If I were to find a fist-raising scene somewhere in Rowling similar to the Stave scene, would that be meaningful? Not really, because slowly and heroically raising the fist against a seemingly omnipotent power is just another old trope.
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SugarWiki/MomentOfAwesome

[earthbrah]

Worm wrote:

(I suspect that Donaldson gave Galt a particularly painful death for this very reason, even if it was a heroic end.)

That is hilarious. I wouldn't put it past him...

[thewormoftheworld'send]

Worm wrote:

(I suspect that Donaldson gave Galt a particularly painful death for this very reason, even if it was a heroic end.)

That is hilarious. I wouldn't put it past him...

And the only possible reason Donaldson made his character Hile Troy a blind person is that "shades are cool".

[thewormoftheworld'send]

For another, a link explaining why Donaldson ended FR with Covenant's first post-resurrection words,
"Oh, Linden. What have you done?"

[rdhopeca]

ok hows about this then.

At the end of WGW, Covenant defeats LF. Now we know from facts that the only power able to preserve LF is earthpower but that was only when the Staff of Law was destroyed. There is now a new Staff of Law, the Sunbane is gone. What power can LF use to restore himself? Infact, at the end of WGW he cast all of himself against TC until there was nothing left. LF was utterly defeated.

New plot for the new books.

Where is the power that LF used to cling too to restore himself. Where is this explained?

Since the only thing Foul has done in TLC is "whisper a word here or there", it does not follow that he has completely "restored" himself at all..but even so, he was able to do it after the RoD without anything else...

[thewormoftheworld'send]

ok hows about this then.

At the end of WGW, Covenant defeats LF. Now we know from facts that the only power able to preserve LF is earthpower but that was only when the Staff of Law was destroyed. There is now a new Staff of Law, the Sunbane is gone. What power can LF use to restore himself? Infact, at the end of WGW he cast all of himself against TC until there was nothing left. LF was utterly defeated.

New plot for the new books.

Where is the power that LF used to cling too to restore himself. Where is this explained?

Since the only thing Foul has done in TLC is "whisper a word here or there", it does not follow that he has completely "restored" himself at all..but even so, he was able to do it after the RoD without anything else...

The Staff of Law still existed after the RoD. It's mere existence supports him.

[Rigel]

I wonder how people here would react if another author used, say, "Earthblood" in his work? Would the same people be defending it as a legitimate creative act, or would they think it's a rip-off of Donaldson?

Donaldson would probably say "Go ahead and use the name, but make the idea your own."

He has a long history in his work of blatantly referencing older material when appropriate, without regards to whether people will think he's "ripping off" something popular.

For instance, everyone's favorite flamebait: the magic ring. The idea of a magic ring is far older than either either Donaldson or Tolkein, but the fact that it was TC's wedding ring gave it thematic relevance; so Donaldson used it. To this day you have people who look at it and say he's ripping of Tolkein, when in reality the only similarity between the two rings... is that they're both made of metal, and they're both rings. Other than that, they're completely different (both technically, as well as thematically).

[Vraith]

The Staff of Law still existed after the RoD. It's mere existence supports him.

OK...I don't remember who started this LF/Earthpower thing anymore and don't feel like going back to look...but, regardless of the fact that LF used/corrupted Earthpower, he does not need it at all, in any way, any more than I need electric power plants to survive, even if I can make use of them. [oh, and the Sunbane...which worried even the snooty elohim...happened after the staff was destroyed, earthpower was more easily corruptible BECAUSE it was destroyed...as a matter of fact, it just occurred to me, LF hasn't corrupted/used it in this series...when a new staff has been around...he's only gotten people to put an insulator between the power and the users...everyone has involuntary rubber gloves between themselves and the power.

And as for tropes, I can see it now...Homer is looking for publishers:
PUB1: He's a lot like Heracles...strong, and the god's are after him...
HOMER: Well, yes..but that's about all...and everyone knows the God's are either fer ya, or agin ya..
PUB2: Oh who, cares about Gods...there's these women and men, and they're plotting..
HOMER: Well what the hell do you want? Geese and mullet dodging the dinner table? That's even more boring than your wife in bed last night...it doesn't matter what they are, it's what they do...

[thewormoftheworld'send]

The Staff of Law still existed after the RoD. It's mere existence supports him.

OK...I don't remember who started this LF/Earthpower thing anymore and don't feel like going back to look...but, regardless of the fact that LF used/corrupted Earthpower, he does not need it at all, in any way, any more than I need electric power plants to survive, even if I can make use of them. [oh, and the Sunbane...which worried even the snooty elohim...happened after the staff was destroyed, earthpower was more easily corruptible BECAUSE it was destroyed...as a matter of fact, it just occurred to me, LF hasn't corrupted/used it in this series...when a new staff has been around...he's only gotten people to put an insulator between the power and the users...everyone has involuntary rubber gloves between themselves and the power.

And as for tropes, I can see it now...Homer is looking for publishers:
PUB1: He's a lot like Heracles...strong, and the god's are after him...
HOMER: Well, yes..but that's about all...and everyone knows the God's are either fer ya, or agin ya..
PUB2: Oh who, cares about Gods...there's these women and men, and they're plotting..
HOMER: Well what the hell do you want? Geese and mullet dodging the dinner table? That's even more boring than your wife in bed last night...it doesn't matter what they are, it's what they do...

I'm not the one who hit the buzzer on you this time. I'm just saying.

Indeed, Earthpower is not a force for good, it is just a force to be used like any other.

[[Syl]]

Donaldson would probably say "Go ahead and use the name, but make the idea your own."

He has a long history in his work of blatantly referencing older material when appropriate, without regards to whether people will think he's "ripping off" something popular.

Exactly. Donaldson has used the word fuligin at least three times in the Last Chronicles, including one of the colors of the Ardent's ribbands. Gene Wolfe created the word to describe the blacker than black cloaks of the torturers' guild in the New Sun books. I think you'd be fine using "earthblood," Z.

As for the thread title/theme, I kind of agree, but not entirely. The first hundred pages are rough. It's basically a series of long, whiny but accusatory arguments by Linden against everyone, especially herself. After that, though, I think the book really becomes interesting if you can put aside your dislike for Linden (I'm not being sarcastic. I'm not THOOLAH, but I really don't like Linden. Knowing her and not knowing SRD, I wouldn't normally read the Last Chronicles). The ancient home of the Viles is fascinating, I actually started to understand and like the Swordmainir as characters as much as Giants of the Search (there can never be a Giant like Foamfollower, and that's just something we have to live with), and Esmer starts to be a character as much as a plot device. From a world-building perspective, and especially considering the way it hooks right into an ambiguity in the 2nd Chrons, I think the bane is very cool, even if her name is not. And I think the Ardent is at least as cool as Amok.