Kevin's Watch

Beetlejuice is top shelf,
Scissorhands and Before Christmas are quite good.
Everything else...better than meh, but not much.

Alec Baldwin "Handsome Actor" is a classic lesson for skit comedy.

The Cure are great.

Sisters of Mercy...are not.

Vraith wrote:Sisters of Mercy...are not.

Sisters of Mercy have one great song (that I know): Dominion. Nothing else I've heard by them does it for me.

On the Tim Burton front, I think he does more interesting work when he's not trying to be Tim Burton. Too many of his films seem to be him self-consciously mimicking his own trademark style.

Like
Ed Wood (partly because it actually improves Wood's films, and partly for Martin Landau's exceptional performance)
Sweeney Todd (I didn't want to enjoy it, but aside from forgettable songs it was decent)

Dislike
Edward Scissorhands (I just didn't get it, I think)
Mars Attacks (hideous. Hated it)
Planet of the Apes (bland and utterly forgettable, except for the above-averagely pretty Estella Warren, who I think was there solely for that purpose)
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (could have been quite good, but ruined by Depp's absolutely dire Wonka. I don't blame him; he acted it quite well, but the character was badly written)

Meh
Sleepy Hollow (ok. Not much to say)
Batman (alright, but something about it has never sat right with me)
Batman Returns (as above, but worse because I dislike the Penguin in it)
Beetlejuice (has potential and Keaton does well, but it's too haphazard)
The Nightmare Before Christmas (the jury's still out on this one. I need to see it a second time)

Loved:
Pee Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands
Ed Wood
Mars Attacks!

Liked:
Beetlejuice
Batman Returns
Sweeney Todd
Nightmare Before Christmas

Bored by:
Batman
Sleepy Hollow
Big Fish
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Corpse Bride

Actively disliked:
Planet of the Apes

Haven't seen:
Alice In Wonderland

My biggest problem with Tim Burton is that it does feel kinda soulless. It seems like he nudges right up against something that I'd really get excited about, and drops the ball at the last minute, often literally so. I would have enjoyed Big Fish if the ending didn't suck so. And I'd like Edward Scissorhands more if not for the same reason. I almost want to put it in the Like category, but I do remember how much Depp blew me away in that role. Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was in the like category, but I really did not like Depp's Wonka (I agree with Covjr's assessment) and was disappointed that a lot of the wit from the Wilder version was gutted, but I liked a lot of the journey along the way despite this. Now it has soured all the more for me.
I really wanted to love Big Fish, but I ended up very disappointed. As for the two Batman flicks, Batman Returns set such a better mood than the original, and I found myself drawn to it where the first Batman never did it for me. And I loved Mars Attacks! possibly because I got the joke, which I don't think everyone did.
The last I'll talk about is the Nightmare Before Christmas. I do find it particularly soulless throughout much of it, but the soundtrack is simply amazing. If it wasn't for Danny Elfman's work, and him being such a big part of the movie, I think it would rest next to Corpse Bride.

Cagliostro wrote:The last I'll talk about is the Nightmare Before Christmas. I do find it particularly soulless throughout much of it, but the soundtrack is simply amazing. If it wasn't for Danny Elfman's work, and him being such a big part of the movie, I think it would rest next to Corpse Bride.

I agree. A lot of Nightmare's charm is Danny Elfman's doing. The more I think about it, the more I think it works despite Burton rather than because of him.

Cagliostro wrote:he nudges right up against something that I'd really get excited about, and drops the ball at the last minute, often literally so.

Literally? Really? Tim Burton's problem is that he can't keep hold of his balls?

I understand the "soulless" comment quite a bit. I think Depp, Elfman and others fill in that void for him (particularly Martin Landau, in the greatest role of his lifetime).
I feel the same way about Mars Attacks-- I got the joke.
Sleepy Hollow was a far better film than anyone will give it credit for.
It re-envisions a bare bones story and infuses it to its full potential as only Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde has done before-- plus Christopher Walken was awesome.

The joke? Sorry folks, the joke wasn't that funny, and it was beat to death 10 minutes into the movie. It was a half-decent idea, poorly executed.

Cail wrote:The joke? Sorry folks, the joke wasn't that funny, and it was beat to death 10 minutes into the movie. It was a half-decent idea, poorly executed.

This.

Horrim Carabal wrote:

Cail wrote:The joke? Sorry folks, the joke wasn't that funny, and it was beat to death 10 minutes into the movie. It was a half-decent idea, poorly executed.

This.

???

Cail wrote:

Horrim Carabal wrote:

Cail wrote:The joke? Sorry folks, the joke wasn't that funny, and it was beat to death 10 minutes into the movie. It was a half-decent idea, poorly executed.

This.

???

Horrim Carabal is agreeing with you. And so am I.

Loved:
Nightmare Before Christmas
Sweeney Todd
Ed Wood

Liked:
Pee Wee's Big Adventure
Edward Scissorhands
Batman
Sleepy Hollow
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory

Had its moments:
Beetlejuice
Mars Attacks!

Meh:
Planet of the Apes

Actively disliked:
Batman Returns

Haven't seen:
Alice In Wonderland
Corpse Bride
Big Fish (have the dvd, tho)

Favorite actor:
Alec Baldwin

Favorite Alec Baldwin film:
All of them!

CovenantJr wrote:

Cail wrote:

Horrim Carabal wrote: This.

???

Horrim Carabal is agreeing with you. And so am I.

Ah, sorry. Not up on my memes.

Cail wrote: sorry. Not up on my memes.

I should have been more clear as in "I agree with this." But I'm laaaazy!

___ wrote: Favorite actor:
Alec Baldwin

Interesting. I really enjoy when Baldwin hosts SNL.

My favorite male actor is probably Kevin Bacon, but I'm also a big Keaton fan.

Isn't it funny that two of Keaton's best performances were Burton films? Beetlejuice and Batman.

No worries Horrim.



Believe me, no one was more shocked than I to realize that Alec Baldwin was indeed the greatest actor ever.

Edward Scissorhands
Batman
Ed Wood-for Landau
Sleepy Hollow-for Walken/Depp

Kind of so-so on everything else-the Beetle Juice/Nightmare like world kind of rub me the wrong way so I, probably, have no use for The Corpse Bride or Alice in Wonderland. I'd like to see Sweeney Todd and Big Fish-thought Charlie in the Chocolate Factory very bland-the OOMPAH LUMPAS ruined it for me-Mars Attacks was dreadful. No desire to ever see Planet of the Apes...

Baldwin is a pretty dam good actor--great performances in Heaven's Prisoners, Glengarry Glen Ross, Ghosts of Mississippi and Mercury Rising.

(Bieber needs to grow a crotch before he can grab it )

CovenantJr wrote:

Cagliostro wrote:he nudges right up against something that I'd really get excited about, and drops the ball at the last minute, often literally so.

Literally? Really? Tim Burton's problem is that he can't keep hold of his balls?

Sorry, I worded that badly. What I meant was sometimes literally at the last minute (before the credits roll) is where he blows it. I was enjoying Big Fish up until the last few minutes

Spoiler

when I realized it was all a lie, and felt cheated. I didn't want reality with that movie, dammit

.

I generally like most Burton films. I get his style and because I'm sort of already sold on the director I tend to give him a pass and rarely look deeper than others who would dismiss one of his films out of hand. However I am not a fan of his entire catalog and have missed a film or two.

Pee Wee's Big Adventure hit me at the right time. When the film first came out I was in a very good place to receive it and had a very fun time without looking too deeply at it's flaws. If I saw the film for the very first time today I'd think it was a goofy wreck no question about it. You gotta love the street signs clearly being pulled along on tracks as opposed to the camera actually being in motion. How wonderfully crappy.

Beetlejuice was an experience very similar to PWBE. I watched it for the first time just enjoying what was going on and not really paying all that much attention to it's "value" as a film. Keaton is manic and demands your attention and Alec Baldwin (the greatest living actor according to Team America World Police) was awesome.

Batman hit me like a punch in the face. Finally a superhero movie that was interested in taking you to a darker place in order to impress. I originally thought Michael Keaton was going to be a disaster but he made me a believer and of course Jack was the anchor as the Joker.
However my tastes have changed over the years and when compared to Nolan's idea of Batman, Burton's is a tragic joke. But at the time the film was fresh and impressive it just doesn't stand the test of time.

Batman Returns didn't register on me like the first film did. It seemed self indulgent. Burton appeared to feel as though his weird and twisted point of view was more important than the story itself. I also generally hate superhero films with more than one antagonist and three just was far too much. However there was a nice carry over for Keaton's Batman in the second film that kept the train from completely leaving the tracks.

Edward Scissorhands was a cute little film that seemed like a strange short story concept at best. I didn't and still don't think the concept really merited a feature length film and it didn't help matters that I used to drive past the subdivision where they filmed much of the movie nearly every day. When I watch the film the locations are distracting however I generally find ways to enjoy it.

Mars Attacks is nothing more than a parody and as a parody I seemed to find it entertaining enough however it does not lend itself to repeated viewings. I think Mars Attacks and his guest appearance on the Simpsons are Tom Jones greatest moments which are generally worth putting up with all the rest of the mildly entertaining crap going on around him.

Planet of the Apes was at first viewing fairly entertaining though kind of disapointing. I was hoping for a film that would totally outclass the original and make me forget all about Charlton Heston. NAH! Wasn't even close. If given the option of watching the original (which I've seen at least a thousand times) or watching Burton's version I would almost always pick the original unless I'm in a strange mood. Kind of a swing and miss film.
Yes the ending is moronic.

I'm outta time for the moment. I'll have to post the rest of my thoughts later.

Horrim Carabal wrote:Isn't it funny that two of Keaton's best performances were Burton films? Beetlejuice and Batman.

I felt Keaton worked too hard in Beetlejuice at something he did effortlessly in Night Shift. As for his best performance, it was probably Clean and Sober.

hmmm. I just have to say that while I enjoyed "batman begins" and rank it as one of the best, Tim Burton's original Batman still thrills me just as much as it did that magical day I first saw it. Nicholson was born to be the joker. His part in the role is second only to Romero's... only because Romero is just one twist more twisted.
I do not find it dated in any sense of the word... well maybe the Prince soundtrack.
You can not go wrong when you put Jack Palance in a film. The joker's slow build up as a menace to batman is epic. His confrontation with Bruce Wayne, not knowing that he's batman is epic.
This first envisioning of Batman is powerful, meaningful, and has withstood the test of time.
Batman returns was one of the few instances where the sequel was an improvement.
Normally the multiple villains thing does not work. Here's why it works in Returns:
Catwoman lacks a menacing presence. She has more of a supportive role and is a tragic foil, helping underscore Bruce Wayne's own conflicts.
Max Schreck, who I assume atomic is referring to as the third villain, is primarily a supporting role. He manipulates the Penguin as well as the "power behind the throne."
Penguin would have no real way to threaten anyone without Max Schreck. His role is therefore vital. Plus, you can't go wrong when you roll film and say, "Christopher Walken, you're a villain... and action!"
Now we get to the Penguin himself. The only movie batman character to ever eclipse Nicholson's Joker.
He is grotesque, psychotic, and his stage presence fills the screen and steals every scene he's in.
He, more than anyone ever filmed, belongs in a place called "Gotham city."
No coincidence therefore, that he gets to run for mayor.
This film is darker, more imaginative, and has significantly more of a plot than the first film.
So, in order of impact, execution, and character portayals, for me the list goes:
1. Batman Returns
2. Batman
3. Batman Begins.

One other point: for me, every other major Batman movie is an atrocity and fails utterly, including "the Dark Knight."