Kevin's Watch

The first, second, and third books rock. The fourth book is terrible. Fifth book is a return to form. I haven't seen the TV show, but if it's one book per season, watch out for season 4!

Anyone else see the Season 2 premiere? Thoughts?

It is going to be an interesting season, that's for sure. Watching the beasties grow and seeing how Dany starts to gather forces. And, of course, the Imp at court will be intriguing.

I am currently in the middle of book 5, but that is a few season's hence. I started watching the series, then read the books. Most helpful, as they toss a LOT of names/places at you at first and it is sometimes hard to catch everything at once.

Are there two TV programmes called Game of Thrones? This just came through from the Richard III Society on FB. Reading the previous postings there doesn't seem to be much similarity

www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/la-c ... 6889.story

Oh, on reading it again, I see the very tenuous connection.

Just watched the season premiere myself. I can imagine the last scenes of the episode might have been incomprehensible to some viewers, since they did not make it explicit that they were killing Robert's children. The scene before it talks about him having bastards, and Gendry was revealed as one in the first season, but it could have been made clearer for those who don't know the books.

I'll try to catch up with this next sometime week; been looking forward to the follow-up.

Well that just went and took a big turn for the non-canonical. I guess they needed to pad out Craster's Keep some, since there's not much happens in Jon's storyline in the second book.


Also, the gratuitous nudity and sex is starting to bother me. Theon's sex scene was in the book, but it was conversation -> brief sex -> conversation, not dialogue over an extended sequence with multiple positions. The Stannis/Melisandre scene could have been done better with her keeping her clothes on and without the bit on the table.

Murrin wrote:The Stannis/Melisandre scene could have been done better with her keeping her clothes on and without the bit on the table.

Bearing in mind the fact that I haven't seen a second of this TV show, please explain that scene to me. I have read the books, and Stannis is one of my favorite characters (sort of a SRD-style character, actually)...but what have they done?!

Murrin wrote: Also, the gratuitous nudity and sex is starting to bother me. Theon's sex scene was in the book, but it was conversation -> brief sex -> conversation, not dialogue over an extended sequence with multiple positions. The Stannis/Melisandre scene could have been done better with her keeping her clothes on and without the bit on the table.

I was rather surprised at its inclusion as at the beginning of the show, they listed Violence and Adult Content and Language, but left off Nudity...which was clearly not the case...

Doc

DoctorGamgee wrote:

Murrin wrote: Also, the gratuitous nudity and sex is starting to bother me. Theon's sex scene was in the book, but it was conversation -> brief sex -> conversation, not dialogue over an extended sequence with multiple positions. The Stannis/Melisandre scene could have been done better with her keeping her clothes on and without the bit on the table.

I was rather surprised at its inclusion as at the beginning of the show, they listed Violence and Adult Content and Language, but left off Nudity...which was clearly not the case...

Doc

It's getting to the point where it is too formulaic. Seriously, each episode needs some sort of sexual encounter, and lest the audience forget what such an encounter entails, it has to be shown in grand detail and ended just as it is about to get completely pornographic. I mean, what else was Stannis going to do with Melisandre after he put her naked on the table? Glad they showed plenty of thrusting, otherwise I'd have thought they were starting a game of pinocle.

You know, I think what really got me was the bit where they decided they needed to show Littlefinger wiping some white fluid off the corner of the mouth of one of the prostitutes in his brothel. Particularly when it happened immediately after the establishing shots of oral sex.

Hell, the whole thing of having Littlefinger not just own all the brothels but live and work in one of them was kind of an unnecessary element.

Horrim Carabal wrote:

Murrin wrote:The Stannis/Melisandre scene could have been done better with her keeping her clothes on and without the bit on the table.

Bearing in mind the fact that I haven't seen a second of this TV show, please explain that scene to me. I have read the books, and Stannis is one of my favorite characters (sort of a SRD-style character, actually)...but what have they done?!

Stannis dismisses Davos (and Davos' son, because the King's Hand and the Maester don't exist in this adaptation) and is left alone with Melisandre. Instead of the scene following Davos outside for an argument with the King's Hand (since he no longer exists), it stays in, to show Melisandre telling Stannis he needs to give everything of himself to the Lord of Light - and in case you didn't get the hint, she takes her clothes off. Stannis argues that he's married, Melisandre infodumps that his wife is ugly, he hates her, and that she's given him no sons (does his daughter exist in this version? We don't know yet). She finally gets him to give in by telling him she'll give him a son, at which point he hoists her up onto the map table and starts thrusting. Model soldiers and boats get strewn all over the place, even after you'd think she'd already knocked over all the ones in the area she's lying.

That doesn't sound good ... I watch this with my wife. My son has even started getting into it, though only on our second viewing of the Blu-ray, so we knew where to fast forward. In the first season, it seemed that the nudity started to tone down after the first episode or two, with only a brief reappearance in a few later episodes. Sex is a part of life, and I understand that it can move a story forward (particularly Dany's story in book one), but this is sounding gratuitous. If we want porn, we'll rent porn.

Yep, welcome to the world of HBF-ingO, where each program has to be 'edgy', and 'edgy' means gratuitous nudity and excessive swearing. They NEED a good story and good acting just so that their shows have the possibility of appealing to people who don't watch TV alone with a jar of Vasoline.

We'll see how long I continue watching this season. There is really no point in watching the show that would not be achieved through reading the books.

The ironic thing is that the level of adult content actually gives the impression of a lack of maturity in the show. Unless it starts taking itself more seriously, and gains confidence in the story and characters to keep people watching without resorting to shock or titillation, I'm not sure how they can sustain this for however many seasons it would take to complete the story.

Murrin wrote:The ironic thing is that the level of adult content actually gives the impression of a lack of maturity in the show. Unless it starts taking itself more seriously, and gains confidence in the story and characters to keep people watching without resorting to shock or titillation, I'm not sure how they can sustain this for however many seasons it would take to complete the story.

Excellent point, Murrin. It does seem to have more of a 'pre-pubescent boys giggling over a Playboy' vibe than a, 'hey, sex happens!' point. Particularly when they decide to interrupt the flow of an episode for a cheap penis joke (Hmmm... looks like Hodor has some giant's blood in him! Yuk, yuk, yuk!).

And regarding Stannis and Mel...isn't Stannis a slave to duty/order? He is portrayed in the books as being rather stiff and inflexible and somewhat of a prude.

HBO must have missed that memo...

DoctorGamgee wrote:And regarding Stannis and Mel...isn't Stannis a slave to duty/order? He is portrayed in the books as being rather stiff and inflexible and somewhat of a prude.

HBO must have missed that memo...

Nah, in their minds, they are just doing an adaption of the classic children's book, "Everybody Poos"... except they seem to have read it as "Everybody Screws"...

Well Stannis does have a sexual relationship with Melisandre in the books, it's just off-screen. It's subtly and indirectly confirmed in places like the scene (spoilered because it's plot in the upcoming season)

Spoiler

when Davos takes Melisandre under Storm's End to birth the shadow, and he thinks he recognises the man who cast it.

It never outright says that they're sleeping together, just that he spends more and more time with her, people come to his bedroom and find her there, etc, and it's obvious from Davos' narration that he suspects it.

Stannis allows himself to be seduced because of the fact that she is the only one who has shown actual results through her faith.

When I read that spoilered section, I did not come to that conclusion, though I am not saying you are incorrect. My mind just leapt somewhere else...

It will be interesting to see where this all goes (especially with the non-cannonical things added in).

Thanks, Murrin.

Doc

While I enjoy a good sex scene as much as the next guy... they do seem to be overdoing it a bit. Yes, there's sex in the books, but the producers seem to be expanding on that.

I don't mind the Melisandre/Stannis scene, though. I have read the books and it makes sense to show this relationship rather than hint at it as the book does.

The parts I object to are when one character is giving exposition about some important historical point and they feel the need to throw a sex scene in just to keep the audience watching.

Give the audience some credit please