What's the "original" King Arthur legend?

Post by **Orlion** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:35 pm

Yeah, there was a time period when a bunch of Arthurian stories cropped up everywhere (Cervantes makes fun of a bunch of them in Don Quixote) and if I recall, Lancelot was a later addition to the legenderium.

I think there's mention on him in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, which I think people have mentioned here before.

Post by **sgt.null** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 5:10 pm

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mage_(comics)

excellent stuff - two series in so far.

enjoyed White, my favorite though the Twain was fun. (read it in summer camp, i am such a geek. also read Ten Little Indians there.)

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:54 pm

Steinbeck did some Arthur stuff, too.

Really, even though it's not what you're asking for, deer, OaFK is a whole lot of fun, and I draws on at least some of the old legends.

Post by **Obi-Wan Nihilo** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:47 pm

I'd trade them all for the movie "Excalibur". Seeing Shakespearean actors (some of whom went onto notoriety) strutting around in extremely anachronistic gothic plate and chewing the scenery like the next Olivier and growling at each other in voices lifted out of the wrestling ring just drives the legendary spectacle of it all home. It's both unintentionally a riot yet also compelling with some vividly rendered characters. Unfortunately the only heaving bosom worth mentioning belongs to superbadsexy Morgana -- God bless the ample form of Helen Mirren.

And Merlin's chrome skull cap is just too cool!

Post by **Vraith** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:18 pm

Exnihilo2 wrote:I'd trade them all for the movie "Excalibur". Seeing Shakespearean actors (some of whom went onto notoriety) strutting around in extremely anachronistic gothic plate and chewing the scenery like the next Olivier and growling at each other in voices lifted out of the wrestling ring just drives the legendary spectacle of it all home. It's both unintentionally a riot yet also compelling with some vividly rendered characters. Unfortunately the only heaving bosom worth mentioning belongs to superbadsexy Morgana -- God bless the ample form of Helen Mirren.

And Merlin's chrome skull cap is just too cool!

Hah...nice one.
If we're gonna go that way, though, I vote for the stage version of Camelot...the movie has some of the same...ummm...highlights?...but leaves out the......ummm...best?....songs.

Post by **lucimay** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:59 pm

Vraith wrote:
Exnihilo2 wrote:I'd trade them all for the movie "Excalibur". Seeing Shakespearean actors (some of whom went onto notoriety) strutting around in extremely anachronistic gothic plate and chewing the scenery like the next Olivier and growling at each other in voices lifted out of the wrestling ring just drives the legendary spectacle of it all home. It's both unintentionally a riot yet also compelling with some vividly rendered characters. Unfortunately the only heaving bosom worth mentioning belongs to superbadsexy Morgana -- God bless the ample form of Helen Mirren.

And Merlin's chrome skull cap is just too cool!
Hah...nice one.
If we're gonna go that way, though, I vote for the stage version of Camelot...the movie has some of the same...ummm...highlights?...but leaves out the......ummm...best?....songs.

i love both!!! Nigel Terry, Helen Mirren, and Nicol Williamson in Excalibur and Richard Harris, Vanessa Redgrave, and Franco Nero in Camelot (1967) !!!!! own both on dvd. nicol williamson is my favorite merlin of all time!!

Post by **Obi-Wan Nihilo** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:39 am

Merlin, Morgana, and the music made that movie, IMO. The rest of them were pretty good too, though the stage acting on screen was both compelling and -- appropriately to the subject matter -- over the top. But of course that retelling of the legend borrowed heavily from the opera Parsifal by Wagner, as well as stealing Siegfried's Funeral Music from Gotterdammerung (Ring Cycle) and the overture from Tristan und Isolde. That movie singlehandedly made me a Wagner fanatic!

A dream to some; A NIGHTMARE TO OTHERS!

(note the Brunnhilde getup)

Tell me the sacred charm of making.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:48 am

Yeah, both are great.

I prefer the staged version of Camelot that I saw on HBO so many years ago. Watched it several times. (You know how HBO is - when it's on for the month, it's on all the time for the month.) In particular, I preferred that rendition of C'est Moi. (Or however the heck that's spelled.)

Post by **Vraith** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:01 am

Exnihilo2 wrote: That movie singlehandedly made me a Wagner fanatic!

AAACHHH!
I'd rather listen to Madonna's dance re-mix of "Don't Cry for Me, Argentina" 5 hours a day every day for the rest of my life than suffer even one more time through "Der Ring Des Nibelungen." And that keeping in mind I can't stand Madonna, and that song is the nadir of her output.

edited to fix quoting

Post by **Obi-Wan Nihilo** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:12 am

Hey, it takes diff'r'nt strokes to move the world!

Is there a story attached to your animus against Wagner, or were you strapped down Clockwork Orange style and conditioned to hate it?

Post by **Vraith** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:48 am

Exnihilo2 wrote:Hey, it takes diff'r'nt strokes to move the world!

Is there a story attached to your animus against Wagner, or were you strapped down Clockwork Orange style and conditioned to hate it?

LOL...I wasn't but the result is similar.
Honestly, I just don't know. With some effort and thought I could probably break it down and find out, I never tried. I do have a dislike for opera in general [though it's mostly the vocals and the whole mess surrounding the operatic voice and training...I quite like a fair amount of the orchestra/composition/music itself]. I do know it isn't just a particular performance/rendition. When my wife was doing grad school, she made me accompany her to the full work, spread out as it is "supposed" to be over 4 days. 1, 2, and 3 were video [on movie screen, heh...not all of us gathered around a little tv] of 3 different stagings, day 4 was live by the city opera.
I recognize the reasons for liking/respecting it, I really do...
but hearing it makes my soul cower, shrivel, and whimper in pain.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:55 am

The preludes & overtures of Wagner's operas are extraordinary beyond just about anything any human has ever created. But you can keep the singing parts.

That's how I feel about most opera, though. Overtures and highlights are amazing, but, sheesh! Heh

Post by **Obi-Wan Nihilo** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:21 am

Well, some people love opera, some people hate opera.

There is no one else, in case you were wondering.

Post by **Obi-Wan Nihilo** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 4:24 am

Fist and Faith wrote:The preludes & overtures of Wagner's operas are extraordinary beyond just about anything any human has ever created. But you can keep the singing parts. That's how I feel about most opera, though. Overtures and highlights are amazing, but, sheesh! Heh

Fist, just curious, do you have the same reaction to the singing in Flight of the Valkyries? What about the vocals of "Ode to Joy" during Beethoven's 9th? Or Mozart's Requiem?

I guess I'm wondering if you hate some classical vocals, or all classical vocals.

Post by **lucimay** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:11 am

ya'll are hi-jackin the arthur thread with wagner!!

Post by **deer of the dawn** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:53 am

No problem. I actually really liked Merlin, the movie made for TV with Sam Neill, Helena Bonham-Carter, Isabella Rosselini, etc. (The Brit TV show "Merlin" was a major suckfest.) Haven't seen the others mentioned here.

And of course, there's Monty Python and the Holy Grail. That's probably the best of all!!

Post by **Damelon** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:38 am

Ali, you should remember that Frasier Thomas searched for the Arthur legend.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:20 pm

Exnihilo2 wrote:
Fist and Faith wrote:The preludes & overtures of Wagner's operas are extraordinary beyond just about anything any human has ever created. But you can keep the singing parts. That's how I feel about most opera, though. Overtures and highlights are amazing, but, sheesh! Heh
Fist, just curious, do you have the same reaction to the singing in Flight of the Valkyries? What about the vocals of "Ode to Joy" during Beethoven's 9th? Or Mozart's Requiem?

I guess I'm wondering if you hate some classical vocals, or all classical vocals.

It's just the filler in opera. All the dialog between the amazing arias and duets. The highlights are all you need, imo. Maybe the difference between me and an opera lover is that the lover loves the dialog too?

In general, classical vocal and choral music is extraordinary. Bach's cantatas, passions, and the B minor Mass are all too sublime to describe in words. Schubert's songs and song cycles are the greatest songs ever written. Mozart's and Verdi's Requiems are at the top of the list. Brahms' Requiem, thought non-traditional in form, is the best of all. Monteverdi's madrigals... Rachmaninoff's Vespers...

But perhaps this should be continued in Vespers.

Some of it's already there.

Post by **deer of the dawn** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:56 pm

Wagner apparently made an opera out of the Parsifal story, which is also part of the Arthurian mytharc. I'd love to see that.

(I was in a production of Camelot when I was about 11, as one of Morgan Le Fay's elfin court. I was part of a dance, then just sat on stage curled up in a ball, then danced off again.)

Post by **Vraith** » Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:15 pm

lucimay wrote:ya'll are hi-jackin the arthur thread with wagner!!

Sorry...heh...but maybe this will help:
It's been so long since I read any Robertson Davies...but isn't a big part of one of his Trilogies tangled up with "How come there was never an opera about Arthur....hey! there almost was! Lets finish it!"

Deer: I almost got to play Lancelot in it...but there was some sort of scandal/screw up with the director and artistic directer, and they replaced it with "Carousel"

/gag

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

What's the "original" King Arthur legend?