Kevin's Watch

Wow, better not let Orloff see you talking like that.

I'm as uneasy about it as the next person, but I would like to think that if the trio that's working on this project can't sell it true to the book... they'll give up and let it go.

I don't know if you've had a chance to see John Orloff's post yet, High Lord Tolkien, but it's fairly reassuring. I think everyone agrees that it would be better if the movie weren't made at all than if it was made badly.

I've got to say, as a devoted fan of the books, that I didn't find Peter Jackson's LOTR an abomination. Parts of it were extremely disappointing, but taken as an entity separate from the books, I think the movies were very enjoyable. Would I have done it the same way? Dunno. But I will say that however bad or good the movies are, they introduced a LOT of people to the trilogy, who promptly went out, bought the books, read them, and then began enjoying talking about how much the movies sucked.

If nothing else, a Covenant movie would raise awareness about our favorite author, and sell his books and make him money, which means he could eat and live & write more books for us. So even if the movie does turn out as you say (and I'm not denying it's a possibility!), we still win.

The sad thing is, HLT is probably right.

Unless the people producing the movie are steadfast in their convictions to bring the book to life *their* way (they are big fans of the series I hear), and have the money to back it themselves, it'll turn out like that.

Anyone see the Kevin Bacon movie "The Big Picture"? It's about a director who wants to make a movie about 3 30-something friends spending a weekend in a mountain cabin reflecting on life.

He pitches it to a producer and by they time the producer gets done "suggesting" changes, the movie is about 3 teenagers (2 of which are lesbians) spending a wild weekend at the beach.

I think that was a fairly accurate portrayal of the Hollywood process

Oh, I know. But I like to dream, and I think I'll give JohnOrloff & Co. the benefit of the doubt. Now, when the first real synopsis comes out and it turns out that TC is not a leper and doesn't rape Lena, that's when I'll fully tear my hair out in despair. Until then, I'm going enjoy imagining how it should be done.

You know, an HBO miniseries or similar might not be a bad idea. If you do it on premium cable, you can get away with a lot the M-for-Mature stuff that you couldn't pull off in a PG-13 movie or on Sci-Fi Channel. You'd have more time to work with, so that you wouldn't have to compress so much good story into 2 hours. Hmmm.

We all went through this when we found out in 1998 that Peter Jackson was making the Lord of the Rings. There were very, very many voices that cried ABOMINATION!.

Seven years later, in spite of a less than perfect adaptation, we're all alive and healthy, people still read the books, fans were not dumbed down, the world's respect for Tolkien is not diminished, and if JRRT rolled over in his grave, he did so gently, so as to get a better view of the big screen, because the movies were pretty good.

We went through it with Spiderman. X-men. Superman, in the 70s. Batman, in the 80s. Hellboy. Soon, Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. All of the fans for these books/comics were just as worried and concerned as anyone here. And, whether it be a success (Spiderman) or a failure (Daredevil), the end result has never diminished the source.

If it's bad, people soon forget. If it's good, it draws new fans.

But good or bad, people get curious and read the book. Either to find out if the book can possibly surpass the movie, or to find out how good the movie should have been.

And so the book lives on.

Wayfriend wrote: And so the book lives on.

Are you married Wayfriend?
Or better yet do you love your Mom?

I'm going to make a movie about your Wife/Mom.
I'm just going to make some changes though.

Some changes will be so absurd that you will rage at the TV when you see it.
It will be beyond your comphrehension how I could miscast and misunderstand a person that you care about so deeply.
Somethings I'll be accurate about and others.... well, with a movie I need to be flexible.
Many of the favorite traits that you love the best about her I will leave out and I will exagerate her faults and just plain make stuff up.
People will tell you how much they loath her or like her and all you can say is: "She's not like that really. You should get to know her like I do."

But I'm sure that when all is said and done your Mom/Wife will be more popular and have a lot more friends.



Is that the end result you would want on your Wife/Mom?
I know.
It's a book not a person.
But some people, like me, know and love these SD and Tolkien books.
And to see them twisted around no matter how pretty..... [puke]

(For the record, Jackson's LotR was too painful for me to watch. I saw the 1st on video, and most of the 3rd in Sears while I was shopping for a HD TV. If it's on TV I might watch it, if nothing else is on.)

Okaaay, High Lord Tolkien, we get your point. I'm not sure that dragging somebody's mother into this debate is useful.

Wayfriend sums it up nicely. I'm pretty open-minded about potential ways of adapting the books. To me, the only thing that matters is that the movie should be good enough to stand on its own, regardless of the source material.

Wow, man. No need to get all worked up about it. It is just a book, like you said...

I mean, if they completely rip up Covenant like hollywood ripped up, say, Timeline, then yeah, I'll probably be pissed. But I think I'll live through the event, and as Wayfriend said, the books still live on. Hollywood can make a crappy movie and completely screw up Covenant, but SRD's books would still be just as great as they were before.

You just can't take this thing personally... It is just a book... It's not your loved one. You just have to accept the fact that if a movie is made based on the Covenant series, then things are going to be different. They're going to have to change some things, leave some things out, ect.

I personally thought they did a decent job with LotR, better then most Book->Movie conversions I've seen. Of course, I'm nowhere near a die hard fan of the series (as most people here know, heh), so I'm probably not a good judge.

So yeah...just lighten up... You just need to realize the movies aren't going to be perfect and just see them to enjoy what they are - movies. Nothing more than that. It's an entire different medium than books. The experience is different. A movie is 2-3 hours long, while reading a book, at least for me, could take months. Sometimes literally months, hehe. (Stupid Runes, heh.)

But seriously man...comparing the book to your mom or wife...that's just a little odd...-jay

I knew if I said "Mom" people would over react!

Sometimes I write with more emotion that I actually feel.
But I wanted something that everyone would have a very strong feeling for.
If I said "cat" it might not have the same effect.

Wayfriend, if you also took me the wrong way I apologize.
Even though I said your Mom/Wife I didn't mean it in any personal way.
It was more of a concept really.

Now, after all this, don't get me wrong.
I like to speculate as much as the next guy.
Russel Crow would be my pick to play TC but it sounds like he bowed out already.
Too bad. That guys was intense and deadpan for over 3 hours in the Gladiator.
*BUT* I also thought that the casting in LotR was dead on target but the movies still sucked.

As has been stated before, there is no way you can translate a book word-for-word into a movie. It has to be changed, it has to be cut. There are some good ones (Hunt for Red October) and there are some stinkers (Raise the Titanic). The point is, if you're looking for a direct translation, don't bother going to the movies. No one's going to make a 12-hour adaptation of LFB.

Nobody can accuse me that I am not a fan and devotee of Tolkien's world. Most of his works, major and minor ones, including HoME, stand on our shelves at home. I frequent fora discussing many aspects of his creation. I study his fictional languages, translate and write texts in Quenya and Sindarin.

And I love the movies.

I must be a pervert.

It's a matter of perspective...

I was generally offended by Tolkien's marginalization of women, despite knowing intellectually that the stories were written, in one sense, as heroic epics of old, in which there has traditionally been little room for women of any sort...

...but I was even more offended by the fact that the movies did not run true to that form, managing to give women (Arwen in particular) more prominent roles while demeaning them at the same time. I felt that Eowyn was the one portrayed most accurately, whining bint that she is; Arwen's show of moaning and groaning was completely unnecessary. I always saw her above that, despite being bound so strongly by her father's wishes.

Wow, that was a rant.

Harry Potter's another example: JK Rowling was very approving of the way the third movie was made. She's the author, and she liked it... but I did not. I was very dissapointed with a great many of the details and with the movie as a whole, despite that the overall tone was perfect. Who am I to challenge the author, though? There must be something wrong with me, right?

Like I said, it's a matter of perspective. As Wayfriend pointed out, the books live on no matter what happens with the movies. I agree that it can hurt to see the things you love treated in a manner you don't agree with, but the source material is a sort of truth, and truth is difficult to destroy.

Yer definitely a sicko, amanibhavam! But that's okay, 'cause so am I. I can't read or write any of his languages (and embarrassinly I haven't read the Silmarillion) but I've loved LotR through and through since the first time I read them (when I would lash out in pure rage every time Mom said it was time to put the book down and come to dinner).

And I think the movies are huge fun. Yes, they cut Tom Bombadil, yes, they totally missed the point of the Battle of Helm's Deep by bringing the damn Elves into it, but they're fun. And without a doubt, the creatures are absolutely amazing.

So anything is possible with a Covenant movie--it'll be one particular vision of the books, whether JohnOrloff's or the studios. It won't damage anyone's individual vision of them, and it might even augment it.

High Lord Tolkien wrote:

Wayfriend wrote: And so the book lives on.

... Is that the end result you would want on your Wife/Mom?

My friend, you are not worried about my Mom. And you're not even worried about a book. You are worried about yourself, aren't you?

Some people might be worried that, if the movie is bad, someone is going to point to him/her and say "... this is the garbage that you like so much?"

Wayfriend wrote: Some people might be worried that, if the movie is bad, someone is going to point to him/her and say "... this is the garbage that you like so much?"

Yeah, there's a lot of that there too.


I should have just stuck to my original "There's only one way to hurt a man, give him back something that he loved broken and patched back together with childrens glue." and left it at that.

The other thing that could be done to ease the pain , based on past discussions with other "purists" like myself, would be to call the movie title:

"The Unbeliever"
"A loosely based film adaptation of the
Chronicles of Thomas Covenant The Unbeliever books".


*THAT* I wouldn't have a problem with!!
But that's kinda tough to put on a poster, isn't it?

LOL, actually I think you're on to something... just replace "loosely based on" with "inspired by." That does fit on a poster, and they could take a world of liberties.

Er, wait. We don't want that.

Lords Staffs are sold on fan sites

I'd buy one....

I'd buy the glow-in-the-dark Lomillialor rod.

I'd wait for the Lego(tm) Deluxe Revelstone(tm) Set (with Saltheart Foamfollower(tm) and Bloodguard(tm)).

(Of course, in the movie, Saltheart is a girl.)

I just want the Genuine Replica WhiteGold™ Ring with "Hellfire and Bloody Damnation" etched on it in the language of the Old Lords. Then I could wear my Genuine 10K Gold Replica of the One Ring™ (It was a gift, I swear) on one hand, and the WhiteGold™ Ring on the other, and be INVINCIBLE!!! Mwahhahahaaaaaa!